hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1996-02-10 CRADOCK 2 MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=54995&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/cradock/dilima.htm REVD FINCA: We are going to call upon Mangaliso Johnson Dilima. Over to you Reverend Xundu. REVD XUNDU Mr Chairperson, let me swear him in. Can you please rise Mangaliso Johnson Dilima? Okay, you can remain seated. MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA (sworn states) REVD XUNDU Thank you sir. REVD FINCA We welcome you Mr Dilima. Over to you Mr Sandi to ask him questions. MR SANDI Let me first greet you sir, this afternoon. Let me first verify your full names. What is your name sir? MR DILIMA I am Mangaliso Johnson Dilima. MR SANDI Do you reside at Somerset East? MR DILIMA Yes. MR SANDI The story that you are going to tell us today took place in somerset East? MR DILIMA Yes, that is correct. MR SANDI When I look at this document, you said that in 1993 you were shot by police at Somerset East? MR DILIMA Yes, that is correct. MR SANDI Mr Dilima, can you briefly tell us what was actually happening in Somerset East on this particular day? MR DILIMA Yes, I can. There was a riot. There were riots at school, but I was at work. During lunch time I went home. I had my lunch. After having my lunch I felt CRADOCK HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 2 MJ DILIMA that I was lonely, I decided to go back to work. I decided that I don't want to stay at home, I must go back to work. I decided to sit there at work. I still had time. It was just before the end of my lunch. While I was still sitting there at work, I saw a police van from the direction of Glen. MR SANDI Do you mean that you were shot while sitting at work, doing nothing, it was just before the end of your lunch time? MR DILIMA Yes, that is correct. MR SANDI Was there any march or a toyi-toyi that was taking place in your surroundings? MR DILIMA No, it was far away. MR SANDI While they were shooting, were they pointing at you or was there somebody else that they were after? MR DILIMA I think they were pointing at me. MR SANDI Were there any other people who were with you who were also shot? MR DILIMA No, I don't think so, but I don't remember. MR SANDI While you were shot, what happened after you were shot? MR DILIMA Somebody went to tell my bosses that I was shot. MR SANDI Where in your body was the bullet? MR DILIMA It was on my left hand side. MR SANDI Were you shot only once or were you shot more than once? MR DILIMA I am not sure because I lost consciousness and I regained consciousness at the hospital. MR SANDI Did you see the person who was shooting you? MR DILIMA It was Marius, but I don't know his surname. CRADOCK HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 3 MJ DILIMA MR SANDI Is Marius the one that you referred to in your statement as Marius Goosen? MR DILIMA Yes, I think that is the one. MR SANDI Was this Marius Goosen one of the policemen in Somerset East? MR DILIMA Yes, I can say so because he was in the company of the police. MR SANDI Before this particular day, had you seen him previously? MR DILIMA Yes, I used to see him. MR SANDI What was it that he was doing? MR DILIMA It was during the time that they were looking for the people that were stealing the sheep. MR SANDI Was he a well-known person at Somerset East? MR DILIMA Yes. He was the person responsible for arresting the people stealing the sheep. MR SANDI Wasn't he a policeman at the security branch? MR DILIMA I am not sure, but I think at that time he was a policeman. MR SANDI Where is Marius Goosen now? Is he still in Somerset East? MR DILIMA I haven't seen him for a long time, I am not sure. MR SANDI Who took you to hospital? MR DILIMA It was Alfred Scrufmetye. MR SANDI What is your relationship to Alfred Scrufmetye? MR DILIMA We were working together. MR SANDI What happened at the hospital? MR DILIMA They removed the pellets, though I don't even know whether they removed all of them. But the Doctor saw through X-rays that there were some other pellets that were CRADOCK HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 4 MJ DILIMA embedded in my body. MR SANDI Where were the pellets in your body? Was there any other pellets in your eye? MR DILIMA I have another one, the one that was behind my ear. MR SANDI Is there any pellets in your body now or maybe they removed all of them? MR DILIMA I am not sure because another one was on my left hand. MR SANDI You mean all these bullets were removed on that same day? MR DILIMA No. MR SANDI When were they removed? Did they tell you to come back again? MR DILIMA I went to another Doctor who removed those pellets. MR SANDI You mean the first one didn't remove all the pellets? MR DILIMA Yes. MR SANDI What was the reason? MR DILIMA I don't know. MR SANDI Did he tell you that you had other pellets embedded in your body? MR DILIMA Yes, because I went for X-rays with the first Doctor. MR SANDI What did he say about removing the pellets? MR DILIMA He said nothing. MR SANDI How many days after the first pellets were removed? MR DILIMA I can't remember. MR SANDI For how many months did you have bullets in your CRADOCK HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 5 MJ DILIMA body? MR DILIMA It is about two months. MR SANDI Were all the pellets removed? MR DILIMA No, it is only the two of them. MR SANDI On that particular day, were there any other people who were shot? MR DILIMA No, I can't remember. MR SANDI For how long were you admitted at the hospital? MR DILIMA It was only a day, but I am not sure. MR SANDI In your statement you said after a week you were discharged from the hospital, do you still remember that? MR DILIMA Yes. MR SANDI It is said that the following week while you were at work, something happened. What was it? MR DILIMA I felt that my left arm was becoming numb. MR SANDI Didn't you fall? MR DILIMA No, I didn't. MR SANDI Have you ever suffered from a stroke? MR DILIMA No. I suffered from stroke after this accident in 1994. MR SANDI Have you ever suffered from a stroke before? MR DILIMA No. MR SANDI What did the Doctor said was the cause of a stroke? MR DILIMA He didn't tell me. MR SANDI Did you go to the Doctor thereafter? MR DILIMA Yes. I was taken to the Doctor, the Doctor said it was a stroke. MR SANDI Who was the Doctor? MR DILIMA It was Verguyt. MR SANDI Are you still working for the Municipality? CRADOCK HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 6 MJ DILIMA MR DILIMA No, they gave me pension. MR SANDI When did you get your pension? MR DILIMA In February, in March. MR SANDI In which year? MR DILIMA I am making a mistake it was February, February 1994, because I was shot in 1993. MR SANDI What kind of work did you do? MR DILIMA I was a plumber. MR SANDI After you had been shot, did you continue doing your job working as a plumber? MR DILIMA Yes, I could still work as a plumber. MR SANDI When you were given pension, was it because you couldn't work properly? MR DILIMA It is because of the stroke. MR SANDI Is that all that you would like to tell us today, Mr Dilima? MR DILIMA Yes. MR SANDI Do you have any request or wish that you would like to forward to the Commission? MR DILIMA Yes. MR SANDI Can you tell us Mr Dilima? MR DILIMA I request that the Commission should help me, assist me in educating my child. MR SANDI Thank you Mr Dilima, I will hand you over to Mr Chairman. REVD FINCA June Crichton? MS CRICHTON Mr Dilima, I want to ask you whether you approached an attorney at all? MR DILIMA Yes, I did. MS CRICHTON Can you give me the name of the attorney and what has happened as a result of your going to see him? CRADOCK HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 7 MJ DILIMA MR DILIMA I went there and reported the case and he stopped me when I went there for the second time. He said he was going to write me a letter. I received a letter saying that I must come to him quickly, but when I went there, they said he was not there. Maybe he was in Beaufort-West or Adelaide. They said they would phone me later. I left the telephone number of the Nclapa family. MS CRICHTON (Indistinct) MR DILIMA Yes, that is correct. MS CRICHTON Are the pellets behind your eyes still there? MR DILIMA Just underneath my left eye. I was short sighted for a long time. MS CRICHTON Thank you very much. MR DILIMA Thank you. REVD FINCA Thank you Mr Dilima, you have given us a clear picture of your shooting while you were just walking, you had nothing to do with what was happening on that day. You were affected for the rest of your life because of that incident. Thank you for coming forward to tell your story. As you have requested, we are going to try to talk to the President and tell him about your requests that your health should be taken care of. We can see right now that it is very difficult for you to walk. If there is something that we would like to get from you, we will come to you, maybe if we need some Doctor's Certificate, but for now, thank you.