hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1996-02-10 CRADOCK 2 THEMBISA CYNTHIA NGCIPHE https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55014&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/cradock/ngciphe.htm MR XUNDU: Thank you Mr Chairman. I would like you Ma'am to take an oath. THEMBISA CYNTHIA NGCIPHE (sworn states) REVD XUNDU Thank you. Ma'am to which clan do you belong? MS NGCIPHE I belong to the Chawe clan. REVD XUNDU You came here today to tell us the story that is well-known to the South Africans, that the Boers of this country went to Maseru and they killed people there and amongst those people, your son was there. In short, can you please tell us about your son, Bantwini? Where was he at the time, what was he doing when he was killed? MS NGCIPHE We knew that Bantwini was going to East London. It was during December. We were surprised when we were told that he was shot in Maseru. He was shot on a Wednesday and we were told on Saturday. REVD XUNDU Where did he stay? MS NGCIPHE He was staying in Pietermaritzburg. REVD XUNDU What was he doing there? MS NGCIPHE He was a Doctor. REVD XUNDU And you heard that he went to Maseru. Did he know anybody in Maseru? MS NGCIPHE I don't know about that. CRADOCK HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 2 TC NGCIPHE REVD XUNDU Did you have any relatives in Maseru? MS NGCIPHE No. REVD XUNDU You heard that he was one of the people who were killed there? MS NGCIPHE Yes. REVD XUNDU You said there is a witness in this matter Baba? Can you please tell us about Baba, where is he from? MS NGCIPHE Can you please repeat that question? REVD XUNDU Can you please tell us about Baba Ngenzi? MS NGCIPHE Baba is a girl who was present, who was with him. REVD XUNDU Was this girl his friend? MS NGCIPHE Yes, it was his friend. REVD XUNDU Was she his sweetheart? MS NGCIPHE Yes. REVD XUNDU She came to tell you what happened? MS NGCIPHE No, we did not hear from her, but we heard this news from his friend, Mzwakindla. REVD XUNDU Were they buried there in Maseru? MS NGCIPHE Yes, and we couldn't go there because we didn't have passports. When we tried to apply for passports ... REVD XUNDU Can you please continue now? You did not manage to get passports? MS NGCIPHE No, we tried to apply for passports, but we couldn't get passports, but we were almost arrested by the Detectives in King William's Town. It was myself and my brothers and my sister. And we decided to come back home. We were harassed all the way from King William's Town until we arrived home. REVD XUNDU Let me assure you the funeral of these people CRADOCK HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 3 TC NGCIPHE were so dignified, they were not buried like dogs by the people who buried them. Even Tambo and Chris Hani were there so I want to assure you that it was a dignified funeral. And as heroes they were buried in a respectful manner. In other words, I want to say your hearts must not feel pain because Oliver Tambo was there, he came from Mozambique to go to that funeral although he was threatened by the South African Government, so I want to assure you that the people who were with your son, respected him. They buried him in a dignified manner. I know that you might have requests that you want to make to the Commission and I know that the incident of Maseru is one of the incidents that made people to look forward, not to look back and other countries saw that this country is strong and the people of South African was strong. In other words I am trying to comfort you Ma'am. You have requests here for this Commission, can you please tell us what are these requests? MS NGCIPHE I want to know the perpetrators and I would like his remains so that they can be buried here. REVD XUNDU Do you want to know the Commanding Officer? MS NGCIPHE Yes. REVD XUNDU And you want his remains to be reburied here? MS NGCIPHE Yes. REVD XUNDU There is one thing I want to clarify in that matter because in Lesotho they gave that land respect. Maybe if we can negotiate, this can come through. The Commission will try to help you out. Secondly you talked about a library, can you explain on that? There is a library named after him in Somerset East, CRADOCK HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 4 TC NGCIPHE in other words his dignity in Somerset is kept. MS NGCIPHE Yes. REVD XUNDU Is there any other thing you want to say Ma'am? It seems as if you are finished Ma'am. Mr Chairperson, I would like to say the Dilima family was one of the families which was strong in this country. His blood was shed for the struggle. He contributed a lot to the liberation of this country. It goes back three generations in the family. I just wanted to contribute this much about this lady's family, thank you sir. REVD FINCA Mr Sandi? MR SANDI Thank you Mr Chairperson. Mrs Ngciphe, how old was your son at the time of this incident? MS NGCIPHE He was 27 years old. MR SANDI He was 27 years old? MS NGCIPHE Yes, he was 27 years old. MR SANDI When did he leave to Maseru? MS NGCIPHE He left in December 1982. MR SANDI I can see that he was educated, can you please tell us about that? MS NGCIPHE He was a Doctor in Adendale Hospital. MR SANDI That means that if he was not killed by the SADF in Maseru that day, you would be living a better life today? MS NGCIPHE Yes. MR SANDI At the time he was living here, was there any conflict between himself and the police? MS NGCIPHE No, he went here to look for his cousin and he was supposed to come back that same week. MR SANDI Did he have any children? MS NGCIPHE He has got one child and his girlfriend. CRADOCK HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 5 MR SANDI Thank you. Thank you Mr Chairperson. REVD FINCA Ma'am, I am not going to disrupt what Reverend Xundu have already said. I think he was there, he was at the funeral himself. He has tried to comfort you that you cannot cry for such heroes. He told us about the history of your family and we could see that your boy was from the hero's family. He gave up his life, because if he didn't do that, today he would have been a rich man. He was fighting for this country. We salute you today for that although other people wouldn't like us to do that. I want to assure you that the perpetrators are coming forward, every day we find revelations and they are telling the people what they have done. One of the things that the Commission is busy investigating is what was involved in the SADF. Your first request was that you wanted to know who were the perpetrators, who gave command. Maybe some day we will be able to answer that question even without investigating because today they are coming forward and they are telling us what happened. Reverend Xundu has already said that as you have requested that his remains should be brought back to this country, we are dealing with that as a Commission but we hope that such people who were buried in countries like Lesotho, their families will come together and decide what they want to do. Maybe some people will say that they want their people back, but they have to come together. Today we would like to say we thank you for coming forward. We thank you.