hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1997-04-12 CRADOCK 3 NOMAMASE NTSWAYI https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55021&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/cradock/ntswayi.htm CHAIRPERSON We welcome you Mrs Ntswayi, who are you with? MRS NTSWAYI My son. CHAIRPERSON What is his name? MRS NTSWAYI Xnidisi Ntswayi. CHAIRPERSON Is he going to give evidence? MRS NTSWAYI Yes he's going to give evidence because he was there when his brother was shot. CHAIRPERSON I will ask Reverend Xundu to swear both of you in. NOMAMASE NTSWAYI (sworn states) XNIDISI NTSWAYI (sworn states) REV XUNDU Mrs Nomamase, we have a statement before us here telling us how your son died. Your story reveals that your son was in the Graaf Reinet Youth Congress, his school principal was also the mayor of the town. MRS NTSWAYI It is so. REV XUNDU Did the Youth Congress not approve of the election of councillors in the township. MRS NTSWAYI I don't know, well it seems to be so. REV XUNDU Your'e saying it is so? MRS NTSWAYI Yes. REV XUNDU The town councillors were not properly elected, is that so? MRS NTSWAYI It is so. REV XUNDU Therefore the Youth Congress that was struggling for liberation saw them as impediments? MRS NTSWAYI It is so. REV XUNDU What happened the day your son was killed? Please tell us briefly? MRS NTSWAYI It was in the evening at about 7 o'clock. We heard sounds, bangs, after a short while, my son, the one sitting next to me came in saying that his brother had been shot. After a few moments my house was packed with people including Mrs Kekana. They then told me that my son died on the way to hospital. REV XUNDU Was this seven in the evening? MRS NTSWAYI It was in summer in November so it was still light. REV XUNDU Were there people who saw the incident, well perhaps your son would like to fill in there? MRS NTSWAYI There were people, a lot of people. REV XUNDU Perhaps your son can take over? MR NTSWAYI It was on the 15th of November 1984. We the youth as UDF members, as my mother said, there was a lot of toytoying at the time in the township. We then decided to go and toytoy at the mayor's house. He got out of the house with a gun. He thought that we were going to his house particularly to toytoy but we did not intend to toytoy at his house as such, we were toytoying along the street. He then started shooting, we dispersed and when I asked the other comrades who had been shot, they then said my brother had been shot. REV XUNDU So the toytoying was really a demonstration that the Youth Congress was against the town councillors? MR NTSWAYI It is so. REV XUNDU So it was a right to protest? MR NTSWAYI Yes. REV XUNDU So please proceed. Was there ever a court case against Mr Mphepho for having shot your brother? MR NTSWAYI There was no court case. REV XUNDU Was there an inquest? MR NTSWAYI No we left it as it was. We could not do anything because if you took your case up to the boers they would just not do anything about it. REV XUNDU Therefore the police just were the law themselves, nobody would dispute anything they said, the law was in their hands? MR NTSWAYI It is so. REV XUNDU Was there a death certificate? MR NTSWAYI Yes there was. REV XUNDU Where is Mr Mphepho now? MR NTSWAYI The last I heard he was in King Williamstown, a teacher. He's not in Alice, some people ran to Alice. REV XUNDU So he's in King Williamstown? MR NTSWAYI Yes he is. REV XUNDU So there was no court case? MR NTSWAYI No there was no court case. REV XUNDU Maybe you can hand over the mike to your mother for her to give her requests to the Commission. MRS NTSWAYI I did not hear well? REV XUNDU What is your request to the Commission, is there something that we can perhaps do for you? MRS NTSWAYI I want Mpepho here. REV XUNDU You want to meet Mpepho? MRS NTSWAYI Yes I would like that. REV XUNDU Secondly? MRS NTSWAYI Secondly I struggle with my health. I had no money to put up a tombstone, I need a tombstone. REV XUNDU How old was your son, did he have a wife or child? MRS NTSWAYI He was a student in Matric. REV XUNDU He had no child? MRS NTSWAYI No he had no child. REV XUNDU Is there anything else you'd like to add? MRS NTSWAYI No. REV XUNDU Mr Chairperson I'll hand over the witness to you. CHAIRPERSON June Crichton? MRS CHRICHTON Mrs Ntswayi, I want to ask you just one question about the funeral. Were there restrictions at the funeral? MRS NTSWAYI It was terrible. Some people were arrested at the very funeral. At the graveyard the police were beating people up. Even back at home we did not sleep that night, the police would kick the doors down and they would go forcefully into the houses. The siblings would have to go and sleep elsewhere, would have to run away because the police wanted to kill the rest of my children. MRS CHRICHTON Another question for you. Am I correct in believing that one of the restrictions were that there could be no people at the funeral who didn't come by car? Is that correct? MRS NTSWAYI Yes that's correct. MRS CHRICHTON Who made that restriction? MRS NTSWAYI It was he police. MRS CHRICHTON Thank you. MRS NTSWAYI That is what the police told us to do. CHAIRPERSON Mrs Nommamase, thank you that your and your son Xnidisi came before the Commission. The picture you have given us, we are by now used to. A lot of people were killed in the struggle for liberation. Your son died in battle, even though it would seem that your son was shot by someone who is not a policeman, but it is clear that he used to work together with the regime. Perhaps it should be comforting to you that even though your son cannot come back to you, that what he fought for, what he stood for, what he gave up his life for, we now have it. You should count him as one of the heros who gave up his life for the country. We have noted the requests that you have stated before us and we will hand them over to our President so that he can see what he can do. We thank you, won't you please take your places?