hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1997-02-07 DUDUZA 2 PETRUS NTOMBELA JB02436/01 VOSLOORUS https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55047&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/duduza/ntombela.htm CHAIRPERSON Could I now ask the next witness, Petrus Ntombela to please come forward. Petrus welcome to you. Could you tell us who you've brought with you today? MR NTOMBELA She is Mary Mbele. CHAIRPERSON Welcome to her as well, There is a request that you speak a bit louder and that you speak into the microphone. Petrus, Miss Joyce Seroki is going to assist you with your statement. MS SEROKI Good afternoon Petrus, you are here to tell us about the events where three people were killed and one was injured. Won't you tell us where this took place and how did it transpire and give us the full picture of the day? MR NTOMBELA Yes. MS SEROKI I will ask you to stand up so you may take an oath. PETRUS NTOMBELA (sworn states) MS SEROKI Go on ahead Petrus and relate your story. MR NTOMBELA In 1992 in December I had a stokvel at home and the Khumalo Gang members came. I was inside the house selling and my brother who is dead now, was outside. Three boys came in, Khumalo gangster members and one sat down right next to me and the two others went on inside the house searching for others. Three minutes later one boy came in with an AK running after the Khumalo gangster members that were inside the house and left also. One friend showed him that the person standing at the door is the one they were looking for. He shot at the guy who was a Khumalo member and the other two ran away and jumped the fence. They brought Khumalo who came himself in person and started shooting randomly around at everybody who was on the premises, shooting without even asking anyone what happened. The stability unit and the soldiers came and started assaulting and slapping people and did not listen when the people tried to express themselves. We ran out of the house and I went to a friend's place and lay down on the lawn because I was tired and in pain. They got inside and took the television set and money and my radio and liquor. When the soldiers were still standing there a mortuary vehicle came to fetch all the corpses and there was one lady in a wheelchair and she was also affected. She was with us in the house, she just died recently a few weeks ago. The 14th, the following day one policeman came and arrested my brother. He didn't want the house and he kept saying that the house was a house of thugs and the lady who is here just now, Lucky is my friend. December 16th we heard some sort of party of some kind and there was one girl who called Khumalo and told Him where we were. Fortunately we had already left the place and when he got there he found one boy whom he assaulted and shot him. The 17th of December I opened this Spaza shop and there was Tokoza taxi patrollers who were working hand in hand with Khumalo and they were shooting around. If they met any male they would shoot without asking any questions. If you were a boy you were shot, no doubt about that. If you had on a cap, no question, you would be shot. I tried to escape and I went to Sebokeng. I came back on the 31st. My friend and my brothers also had a party and they extended and invitation to me and I joined them where the party was taking place. We had a good time drinking wine when at one o'clock said that I was leaving. We all decided to go and the five, Tapelo, Randy, Aaron, Pani and one other that I did not know of us, went in opposite directions to me and met the Khumalo gang on the way who shot them all dead. One day Khumalo came to my house with boers and they were driving a maroon husky and they took my entire album with them. I left the place and went to a girl friend's place in Katlehong and Khumalo followed me there. Just when I left the house he came in and said he was looking for a short boy and another one who had a limp. They did not find them because they had already left. That disturbed me a great deal because I knew Khumalo as a reverend, a pastor so to speak. Now that all these things were happening and he was the very one in the forefront it was a shock and a surprise to me. One day he came to my place before my brother was arrested and requested us to go and beat up Mugabe. He was driving a combi that day and we joined him and when we got to Mugabe's house we found his mum and she told us that Mugabe had left the place and it's been quite some time. We came back and suddenly the very man that we were rendering the favour to turned against us. Today he calls us hooligans and all sorts of names. When we put on a cap or a pair of jeans he calls us a name. When we go to some areas we are not free at all because follows us always armed and those weapons are probably not even licensed but they are however allowed to use them. I will end there. MS SEROKI Petrus you just said you had a stokfel at your place and Khumalo's boys came. What about the Khumalo boys, were they students or were they comrades? MR NTOMBELA All they knew was IFP. MS SEROKI Are they the same age as you? MR NTOMBELA Yes, perhaps I'm a little older than them. MS SEROKI And you also talked about the other ones that entered the house. Were they running away from some kind of shooting and they went into the house, or what was happening? MR NTOMBELA There were three and one of them drew out a gun and started assaulting people in the premises. He was suddenly shot and we did not know who shot him. MS SEROKI And tell us about Khumalo, why was Khumalo after you, we're not clear about that one? Were you a comrade or what. MR NTOMBELA Yes I was a comrade. MS SEROKI And were you one of the SDU members? MR NTOMBELA No SDU came after the whole thing. MS SEROKI You were just protecting but you were called comrades? MR NTOMBELA Yes. MS SEROKI Now Khumalo was after the comrades? MR NTOMBELA Khumalo was killing comrades and people who were misbehaving. MS SEROKI What about Mugabe, was he a comrade? MR NTOMBELA No he was not a comrade, he was a thug. MS SEROKI He was also being hunted by Khumalo? MR NTOMBELA Yes, my brother is in prison and also he attacked my brother. MS SEROKI Now Khumalo's job was to collect all the thugs and the comrades or what? MR NTOMBELA No Khumalo was an IFP and against the whole community and we are ANC. MS SEROKI Have you been to the police station to report the matter about Khumalo? Did you ever report this case? MR NTOMBELA No all the time we were trying to seek cover from one place to another so we were for ever running away. MS SEROKI Did anyone lay charges against Khumalo, perhaps one of the victims or so? Would you have any idea of any charges laid against Khumalo by one of the victims or did you try to do that collectively? MR NTOMBELA No Khumalo was collaborating with the police, working hand in hand with them so that we were not in a position of reporting him or probably laying charges against him. We could do that but policemen would discard the information. MS SEROKI Because even before the previous speaker was telling us about Khumalo did you hear that? Our honourable Chairman just said you've mentioned Khumalo and the previous speaker also made mention of Khumalo and the Chairman has explained in English that anyone who's been mentioned as an alleged perpetrator will also be given an opportunity to come forward and explain the side the story so that we know that to every story there are two sides. Now what I'm trying to say here in a nutshell is, maybe some have not heard Dr Russel. I'd like to explain and absolutely emphasise his point that any name that's been mentioned as and alleged perpetrator, that person needs to come forward as well to give their statement so that we know their side of the story. If there any people in this hall, maybe Reverend Khumalo himself is present here, we do extend an invitation to him and even who know that probably he's not here to please pass on the message to him so that he is aware of the fact that he needs to come forward and give an account and also explain to us his side of the story. DR RANDERA Bafana you said earlier on to Ms Seroke that you were a friend of Lucky and that you know Buyisela. Now Buyisela said that Rev Khumalo seemed to come on to the scene after his daughter was raped. Can you remember that incident? MR NTOMBELA At the time I was arrested, I was in prison. When Mugabe did that I was not in the neighbourhood I was in prison. DR RANDERA Was that in 1992, 1991? MR NTOMBELA '92. DR RANDERA Before this happened was there a Khumalo gang? I mean did people know of the Rev Khumalo and his gang and the association with the IFP which you allege. Did people in the community in Thokaza know of this gang before the Reverend's daughter was raped? MR NTOMBELA No that gang was not existing before, it started after Mugabe had raped his daughter. DR RANDERA So it really came into existence with the rape of the Rev Khumalo's daughter. MR NTOMBELA Yes. DR RANDERA And therefore it could be possible that the Reverend was just trying to take revenge for what happened to his daughter? MR NTOMBELA Yes that's what I will say. DR RANDERA But why did the links with the IFP ...(indistinct), you say he was strongly linked to the IFP? I just want us to go away quite clear, was this gang associated with the IFP or was this just because the Reverend's daughter was raped? MR NTOMBELA He was an IFP member, I mean Khumalo. DR RANDERA Thank you very much. MR LEWIN Mr Ntombela, could I just try and clarify. You mentioned, you've just mentioned that now that you yourself were in prison, could you tell us when it was and why? MR NTOMBELA I spent a short time in prison. I was arrested in January and released in February. MR LEWIN Were you actually charged or were you held in detention? MR NTOMBELA I was pointed to as one of those who owned weapons and I did not own any weapon or gun. MR LEWIN So were you held in detention by the police? MR NTOMBELA They met with some boys that knew me and because I used to sell liquor so everybody was coming any time and the police came and picked me up and alleged I had a gun. MR LEWIN Why do you think they wanted to put you in prison? MR NTOMBELA There was one vehicle outside and there were two guns in it. The boys had left and ran away and I was the only one around now. Everybody had left the area. MR LEWIN Could I ask you, I think in following up what Dr Randera has asked, would you describe the conflicts that you have told us about, would you describe it as a political conflict? MR NTOMBELA What was happening had nothing to do with politics but murdering and thugs around. CHAIRPERSON Thank you Bafana, I won't add anything to what Ms Seroki has said about giving everyone a chance to respond allegations and we will certainly be following up in your case as well, as we will with the previous witness, Lilian Mampura. Thanks very much for coming.