hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1997-02-05 BENONI 1 LAZARUS SHABANGU https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55051&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/duduza/shabangu.htm MR LEWIN I would just like to remind anyone who still has statements to make or would like to make statements that there are statement takers. They are actually upstairs in the room just behind that corner there, if there are people who would like to either make statements now or who would like to find out how they can make statements at a later date. And I would now like to call our final witness, Lazarus Shabangu. Mr Shabangu can you hear me all right through the earphones? MR SHABANGU Yes. MR LEWIN Thank you very much for being with us for the whole day and for staying on. I am sorry it has been so long, but it has been a long day and we would like to thank you. Before you give your evidence could you please stand and take the oath. MR SHABANGU (sworn states) MR LEWIN Mr Shabangu I will myself ask you to tell us your story, which is one which we have not had examples of today. It refers to the incident which took place in 1992 concerning yourself on a train and if you could please in your own time tell us about that experience. Thank you. MR SHABANGU It was on the 30th of October 1992, in the morning of that day, at half past five to six. I was working at Clicks next to Denver at the Trade Centre Building. I just knocked off that morning because I was attending the night shift. I was using the train for my travelling. I was already aboard the train from Denver, which was go to via Germiston. At Delmore more than 50 men entered the train. Some had weapons, guns and assegais. I used to read novels in the train, struggling books, to want to furnish myself with information as far as political organisations, the way they started and where were they headed to. This particular book was centred in politics, the very one that I was reading at the time when the men entered the train. There was one young man amongst them and he was sent to me to ask my name. I told him my name, that I was Lazarus Shabangu. He took the book I was reading. He actually grabbed it, very indecent. He asked me where I was from and where I was headed to and why I was reading that particular book. Even before I could answer the very group that I was in, the majority was women. I started seeing people spreading around at the coach. Before the twinkling of an eye they took me towards the train door. They started assaulting me. They told the youngest guy to hit me with a clap. They assaulted me. One of them drew out a gun. I heard a loud bang of noise and gunshots. I heard women screaming and that was the time that they shot me right here. They shot again twice. The other bullet got stuck right here on my right hand cheek. From there I lost strength, but I could hear them very vaguely, saying he is dead. The train was in motion. One said, let us throw him out of the train. The door was opened and they threw me out of the train after chopping me on my forehead. The train was in motion when they threw me out of it. I do not know what happened after that, because when I gained my consciousness I was already admitted to this hospital, asking the attendant where was I and what had happened? They told me, you are two weeks in this ward at BBH Hospital. I had my parents with me, coming to visit me in hospital. That is it. MR LEWIN Thank you Mr Shabangu. Could you tell us a little bit about yourself. You say you were travelling from Denver to Springs. Is that where you live? MR SHABANGU I reside in Daveyton. MR LEWIN What do you do now for a living? MR SHABANGU I am still employed at Clicks. MR LEWIN So they kept your job open for you? MR SHABANGU They once threatened to retrench me but I negotiated and they accepted me back. MR LEWIN Could I ask if you could give us some more details about this horrible attack in the train. You say there were other people in the coach when these 15, they were all men were they, when they came in, when these men arrived? Was the coach quite full? MR SHABANGU I will say there were about five women and two gentlemen that I used to be with and travel with. When I asked about them they told me that those who were killed were all admitted at BBH, but they passed away. MR LEWIN Was that all the other people in the coach? MR SHABANGU You mean the ones who were killed? MR LEWIN Yes, or just the... MR SHABANGU There were others also who were killed, but there were only a few of them, because this happened early in the morning. MR LEWIN And were they killed in the coach or were they killed by being thrown out in the same way that you were? MR SHABANGU When they shot me I do not know what happened afterwards, because I lost my consciousness. I did though hear sounds, people screaming. To me, I will think they attacked them after I was being thrown out of the coach. MR LEWIN When these people came into the coach on the station, was there anybody there who could defend you, I mean there were not any police or soldiers on the train to stop them? MR SHABANGU There were no police or soldiers. MR LEWIN And I mean was it fairly clear to you at once what was happening? Have you heard of similar incidents before? MR SHABANGU Yes I had heard about similar incidents before, that people were attacked in the train and killed. MR LEWIN And when the youngest of them came to you and slapped you because of the book and took the book away. Did he say anything else, did they give any indication of what they really were trying to do? MR SHABANGU He only asked my name. I told him my name. As to what he was trying to do I do not know. If he was a thug he could perhaps tried to rob me of my possessions, but he did not. To me, I think he was after my life, to kill me with other people in the coach. MR LEWIN So they did not seem as they were muggers or thieves. MR SHABANGU They had weapons and were fully armed. MR LEWIN And what language were they speaking? MR SHABANGU They were talking in Zulu. MR LEWIN Did they make any particular statement to you or did they just start attacking? MR SHABANGU They only asked me my name and that was all. MR LEWIN And now what you would like us to do is to try and find out why this happened. Is that what you would like? MR SHABANGU Yes, I will appreciate that. MR LEWIN And in terms of your health, what is the position now? Have you recovered fully from the attack? MR SHABANGU My life has changed, health-wise. I am no longer the Lazarus at home they knew before and all this change also affected my family at large. As I am talking, my mom is not feeling well. She does not even know what is happening and what is taking place with me in my life. I underwent an operation and they extracted one bullet, which penetrated through my head. Now my life is drastically changed from all that. MR LEWIN Is there still another bullet lodged in your head you think? MR SHABANGU You mean in my head? MR LEWIN Yes. MR SHABANGU Yes there is one. MR LEWIN You say your life has changed. Do you have to take medication regularly? MR SHABANGU I take pills, tablets quite often and I am afraid they may cause some other defects in me and at times at night I do not sleep quite well. MR LEWIN Can I ask, do you still travel to work by train? And if you do, how does it feel now? MR SHABANGU Because the violence has come since, after 1994 I told myself that there is nothing I can do. If I die, I die, who cares? MR LEWIN I would just ask the other Commissioners if they have any questions. MS SEROKE Lazarus are you married? Do you have a wife and kids? MR SHABANGU No. MS SEROKE When you were admitted to the hospital and your parents not knowing where you were, how long did it take for them to locate your whereabouts? MR SHABANGU They took about a week to discover that I was at hospital. MS SEROKE Who told them? MR SHABANGU At home they suspected that something was wrong, because I was delayed, because they have already heard that in the morning something happened, that train violence took place and that was the very train that I used to use. Also, I had my card and they phoned to my work place to inform them about me. MS SEROKE Do you still live with your parents? MR SHABANGU No. My parents are in the Northern Province. I come from the Northern Province. MS SEROKE Thank you Lazarus. MR LEWIN Lazarus, just one last question, if I may. When you did get treatment was that at the Hillbrow Hospital? MR SHABANGU Yes they transferred me to Hillbrow Hospital. MR LEWIN Because what I would like to suggest, we are very grateful to you for coming to tell us this story and we feel very much for the obvious pain that you still feel and there is nothing specific at this stage that we can recommend. But what we could recommend is that you yourself find counselling assistance, because I think that would help you. We can make recommendations to our Reparation and Rehabilitation Committee to assist you, possibly to look at the medical situation again. But also, to help you psychologically, because clearly you have gone through a very traumatic time which is affecting you, and that is quite understandable and what we would like to do is to urge you to keep going. The fact that you manage to stay on at the same job is a big plus for you and we need to congratulate you for that, but we certainly urge that you look at the possibility of applying for counselling and if necessary, we will certainly make that recommendation as well. So we would like to thank you very much for coming to tell us this story and sharing it with us and we wish you well. We wish you strength. Thank you very much. MR SHABANGU Ok. Bye-bye. MR LEWIN Thank you. If you could just stay there so that I can just announce that we have come to the end of our hearings here today. I would like to thank everybody who has been here for their patience. I would ask you please just to stay quiet because we will have a formal closing. Before we call on Rev Mbanda just to close the session for us I would like to express, on behalf of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission our very deep thanks to the people of the Benoni City Council, to the Mayor, to the Councillors and others who have made this possible. I would also like to thank the police for the way they have kept us secure and for the help that they have given. I would like to thank all of those who helped make this whole hearing possible, who helped us with finding the people to make their statements. I would like to thank the community groups, particularly Rev Mbanda and his Committee who have played such an important role in setting up this Commission, this Commission hearing here. I would like to thank the Commission staff themselves who worked, as you can see, considerably to get everything up and running. Thank you, again our faithful interpreters who follow us round, who never complain and who make it possible for us to make all of these hearings available to as many people as possible. I would also like to thank the media hiding behind the doors for sticking around, for passing on the stories and for being very much a part of the hearings. And if I could now please ask Rev Mbanda just to formally close the session for us and if we could all stand. Thank you. REV MBANDA CLOSES THE SESSION WITH PRAYER .