hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1996-09-24 DUNCAN VILLAGE 2 NOTHEMBA MARJORIE FAZZIE https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55059&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/duncan/fazzie.htm REVD FINCA: Can we get ready to start. I think that you are here already. I made a mistake when we were adjourning, that I said that we are going to resume at two o'clock and instead of saying we should resume at half past one. We are now going to call upon Nothemba Marjorie Fazzie. REVD XUNDU Chairperson, I would like to swear her in. Ms Nothemba Marjorie Fazzie, could you rise. NOTHEMBA MARJORIE FAZZIE (sworn states) REVD XUNDU Thank you. REVD FINCA We welcome you Ms Fazzie and we are going to hand you over to Revd Xundu. I would like to make an correction in paragraph 6 for the spelling of habitation in paragraph 6. Instead of cohabitation, it is habitation, thank you. REVD XUNDU Ms Fazzie, we greet you this afternoon with all the respect. We are going to follow our statement slowly so that every body should hear about the contribution that was done by two of your children. By the way Mzwanele was your son? NM FAZZIE Yes. REVD XUNDU How many sons do you have? NM FAZZIE I now have one son. REVD XUNDU How many sons did you have before this incident? How many sons did you have? NM FAZZIE I had four sons. DUNCAN VILLAGE HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 2 NM FAZZIE REVD XUNDU These two, Mzwanele and Sicelo are those who died, is that so? Where was Mzwanele when he died? NM FAZZIE He was in Lesotho. REVD XUNDU Could you tell us what actually happened? NM FAZZIE They left on the 8th of December in 1982 for Durban and the following day we got - we had seen that there had been an attack in Lesotho, unknowing that they were there. Then in the afternoon the following day, there was some people who came to inform us that Lesotho, Mzwanele was one of the people who died in that attack. REVD XUNDU Was he at home at the time or what happened? NM FAZZIE They were on a visit to Lesotho for a weekend. Now they say the policemen here from South Africa forced their way and made this raid in Lesotho. REVD XUNDU Who are the other victims who died that you happen to know? NM FAZZIE He went with Jobo from Mdantsane, Ngcipe from Somerset East. Then the other people were from Mdantsane, Port Elizabeth and Johannesburg. REVD XUNDU And after this incident, where were they buried? NM FAZZIE They were buried in Lesotho. REVD XUNDU Did you attend the funeral? NM FAZZIE Yes, I did, though it was difficult. REVD XUNDU Who were the distinguished people who were present at his funeral? NM FAZZIE You mean people present at the funeral or you mean people who accompanied us? REVD XUNDU No, I'm referring to speakers. NM FAZZIE There was you as a speaker, you were present DUNCAN VILLAGE HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 3 NM FAZZIE there. Thambo was one of the speakers. REVD XUNDU And I think the funeral was so big that you must have felt good because the ANC leaders were there. Now let's move on to hear about Sicelo. How did he die? NM FAZZIE He left the country because he was going to lead someone into Lesotho. He was going to be a co-driver with that person, then we didn't ask anything because we didn't want to interfere in fear that we would be implicated in this journey, though we were unhappy about his leaving. So we left him there. REVD XUNDU Then when did you get to know that he was injured? NM FAZZIE It was after two weeks that we got to know about his injury. REVD XUNDU Who informed you? NM FAZZIE We were informed by some students from the University of Roma who had been sent to come and tell us that there was this occurrence and we had to come to Lesotho. REVD XUNDU So you also went there? NM FAZZIE Yes, we did. REVD XUNDU Who were the other people that got injured with him? NM FAZZIE He got injured with Bongani Ngamlana. REVD XUNDU What about Feni? NM FAZZIE Feni escaped the injury. REVD XUNDU Do you perhaps have any inkling as how it all happened, how did they die? NM FAZZIE I was looking at Feni to come and give first hand information and to tell us what actually happened. Unfortunately he is not here. Then there is another man who DUNCAN VILLAGE HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 4 NM FAZZIE used to be in Lusaka, but who is not back yet who could also give us some information. Then there is another person from Port Elizabeth. REVD XUNDU Do you perhaps know the names of these people? NM FAZZIE I don't know the one from Zipunzani, the one from Port Elizabeth is, his name, I forgot his name, though he did stay with me and we were using a code name, Sipho for him. REVD XUNDU In your statement you have mentioned that Mr Mbewana who had some knowledge about this incident. Where was he working at the time? NM FAZZIE He was a security at the Cambridge. He did not come to explain to us, but he made mention of this to his neighbour and he stated that there was this death of the Fazzie son and this lady he was talking to, wanted to cry and this man stopped him when he mentioned it, because he said people were not aware about this. Then the person he was talking to came to our place and we asked them not to talk about this because we were still going to find out about this incident. REVD XUNDU Have you seen Mr Mbewana since that time? NM FAZZIE Yes, we used to see him before he left East London. He is now in Transkei. REVD XUNDU Would you like him to come and bring more light on this matter? NM FAZZIE Yes. REVD XUNDU Then, what is your wish, what would you like this Commission to do for you? NM FAZZIE I would like this Commission to investigate and tell us how my sons died, though we were told that they DUNCAN VILLAGE HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 5 NM FAZZIE drowned in a river as they were crossing, but we are not satisfied. We all want to know what actually happened, because even the place in (indistinct) place, felt that it was really queer, they did not believe that Sicelo had drowned himself, they even knew his mission and knew everything about Sicelo. At the time of his death, his passport was in his pocket. REVD XUNDU Was Sicelo buried here at home? NM FAZZIE Yes, though we had difficulty, because security was coming to our place frequently wanting to know how many people were going to attend the funeral and we were always in panic that they would stop the funeral. REVD XUNDU What is your wish now in connection with all this? NM FAZZIE I would like that the security that was giving us hard time should give us the reason for that. Such that we had to go to lawyers with intention to bring their bodies back. I just really want to know their aim because I did see that they were buried in a hero's ground and their graves were taken care of. One other thing is that I would like to know why were we harassed for a long time, because we never enjoyed just living like all other people. They harassed us for a very long time and we never had peace in our family. REVD XUNDU Right, I understand. Now these two sons of yours didn't have any children? NM FAZZIE No, they were still young at the time. REVD XUNDU Lastly before I hand you over to the Chairperson, I would like to ask you after whom have these children taken because they are hero's? DUNCAN VILLAGE HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 6 NM FAZZIE NM FAZZIE They took after their father who used to be a political activist and used to be arrested and my children got used to all this such that even when they were young, they used to take it easy whenever their father would be arrested. Such that people used to feel that my husband was responsible for telling them to be politically aware. REVD FINCA Over to you, Ntsikelelo Sandi. MR SANDI Ms Fazzie, in your statement you have mentioned Mr Mbewana as the first person to know about the death of your son. NM FAZZIE Yes, he was the first person. MR SANDI Now you say he told this to his neighbour and it is this neighbour who came to inform you? NM FAZZIE Yes. MR SANDI At that time, were you perhaps aware that Sicelo had died? NM FAZZIE No we were not aware, though we were suspecting that he could be dead, because he was supposed to have come back on a Monday. MR SANDI According to your estimation how long did it take from the time you got to know about Sicelo's death? NM FAZZIE It took four days for us to know from the time Mr Mbewana had talked to the neighbour. MR SANDI Thank you Ms Fazzie. REVD FINCA Ms Fazzie, we thank you. It is very clear that your offspring is like that of Maria who was told that her offspring was blessed. Because from you we have got some hero's that gave their lives whilst fighting for the freedom of this country. Though at that time you must have been very hurt and you were being harassed because people were saying your DUNCAN VILLAGE HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 7 NM FAZZIE children were terrorists. That is why we have got to hail you and your children as hero's because your children have watered the trees of freedom of this country. We therefor salute you and your children. The requests that you have forwarded before this Commission are going to be taken into consideration and as mentioned earlier on, we would like to know what your opinion is about this rebellion because most parents whose children died in exile have asked that the bones should be brought back to the country. So we would like to hear what you have to say about this. So we thank you. You can go back to your seat.