hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1996-09-24 DUNCAN VILLAGE 2 MXOLISI TOTOTO MBEWANA https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55070&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/duncan/mbewana.htm REVD FINCA: We are going to call upon ... silence please, it is towards the end. We are going to call upon Maki Ntshunde. Is he here? Mxolisi Tototo Mbewana. REVD XUNDU Let me swear him in. Will you rise. MXOLISI TOTOTO MBEWANA (sworn states) REVD XUNDU Thank you. REVD FINCA We welcome you Mr Mbewana. We are going to hand over to Mr Sandi who is going to ask the questions on behalf of the Commission. thank you. MR SANDI Thank you Chairperson. Mr Mbewana, let me greet you this afternoon. First of all, I want to confirm you names. Your full names, Mr Mxolisi Tototo Mbewana, is that correct? MT MBEWANA Yes. MR SANDI Today you are going to tell us about what happened to you during the conflict here in Duncan Village. When I look at your statement, you say that on the 13th of October in 1985, you were shot. Can you please tell us what was happening? MT MBEWANA I'll start from the beginning like this. In 1985, we were still using busses. After work we were told by the driver of the bus, that the bus is not going to get in Duncan Village because there are hippo's who are shooting people who are shooting people, even the bus could be shot at. DUNCAN VILLAGE HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 2 MT MBEWANA We alighted at Dugashe and we walked, it was already dark. There were people who were laying on the ground, being shot. I managed to reach the C-Section, I was staying at Section 13, but my children were not there any the house was open, and my wife was not there also. I went to my next door neighbour's house, I found my wife behind the door and she told me that the soldiers are around and they are just shooting randomly at everybody. I told her that I saw this also, I also saw this boers. MR SANDI: Which time are you referring to now, Mr Mbewana? Were you on your way to work? MT MBEWANA No. We didn't sleep on that particular day because the soldiers were shooting all over. The following day... MR SANDI Mr Mbewana, I would like to request that we stick on those events that are here on your statement, because in your statement you say you were shot at and evidence that you are giving now, should stick on that. What happened and where did the whole thing take place, what was happening. MT MBEWANA I'm right there. MR SANDI What happened? MT MBEWANA Early the following day there were people who were toyi-toying from the other direction. They were saying that we must go and break that bridge so that the boers must not be able to go over the bridge to reach our place. MR SANDI Were you already shot at this time? MT MBEWANA No. MR SANDI I would like to lead you Mr Mbewana, you said when you were at Ndzuzu Street, where is this Ndzuzu Street? DUNCAN VILLAGE HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 3 MT MBEWANA MT MBEWANA Ndzuzu Street is just on the other side. MR SANDI You say you saw a casper coming from the direction of Ford Street to join the Ndzuzu Street? MT MBEWANA Yes, that's correct, that's what happened. Because this hippo was in front of me. MR SANDI You say this casper came to your direction, is that what you are saying? Who was inside this police casper? MT MBEWANA When this hippo turned, I gave way. MR SANDI What happened? MT MBEWANA Some soldiers, White soldiers, alighted from this vehicle, and they didn't ask any question, they shot me. MR SANDI Where did they shoot you? MT MBEWANA On my eyes. I couldn't realise immediately that I was shot at. MR SANDI Which eye was that? Is that the right eye or the left eye? MT MBEWANA It is my left eye. MR SANDI Then what happened after that? MT MBEWANA I heard a voice of people that the hippo had passed. MR SANDI ; Did you fall? MT MBEWANA Yes, I fell. MR SANDI Were there any utterings that were made by this soldiers while you were laying there? MT MBEWANA I don't remember hearing any of their voices, but I just heard ordinary people saying that I must be helped, I must be taken into a certain vehicle and be taken to the hospital together with the other people from the C-Section. DUNCAN VILLAGE HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 4 MT MBEWANA MR SANDI Were you taken to the hospital? MT MBEWANA Yes, I was. In this van I was taken by this van to the hospital. I lost consciousness while the vehicle was next to the hostel, I regained my consciousness the following day in the hospital. MR SANDI What hospital were you admitted in? MT MBEWANA I was in Frere Hospital. MR SANDI When you regained your consciousness there, what was happening? In what condition were you in? MT MBEWANA When I woke up there, when I touched my face, I didn't feel any pain, but I could see that, I could feel that there was something, but I discovered that the other side of me was swollen and I asked for a mirror so as to see what was happening, and then they said you are shot. There is no need for a mirror, there is only a bandage on your face. MR SANDI You say while you were in hospital, the soldiers were visiting you regularly. What is it that they were looking for? MT MBEWANA They were just asking people concerning their injuries, whether they got injured at Duncan Village or wherever, but I didn't tell them, because all the people who were there, were under regard of the soldiers and after that person had recovered, that particular person would be taken by the soldiers. MR SANDI Were the soldiers going there in the evening or maybe during the day? MT MBEWANA They used to visit the hospital day and night. MR SANDI Were there nurses and Doctors there when the soldiers were visiting the hospital? DUNCAN VILLAGE HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 5 MT MBEWANA MT MBEWANA Yes. MR SANDI Were they asking for any permission from the nurses and Doctors to talk to the patients who were shot? MT MBEWANA I don't know any idea whether they were getting permission or they were just doing that. MR SANDI You say whenever you saw this soldiers, you used to hide and have you ever - did you tell the nurses and the Doctors that the soldiers used to come there and ask for the folders? MT MBEWANA No, I didn't, because they used to come to the hospital in the presence of the nurses and Doctors. MR SANDI So do you think there was a certain connection between the nurses and the soldiers? MT MBEWANA I think the nurses were scared of the soldiers also. MR SANDI Did you approach any attorney Mr Mbewana, concerning this matter? MT MBEWANA No. MR SANDI You didn't hear that maybe there were certain lawyers that the people who were shot at, used to visit? MT MBEWANA I was told that there are lawyers, but my uncle said that, my other uncle who is a policeman is going to ill-treat me if I can lay charges against the police. MR SANDI What uncle are you referring to? MT MBEWANA He died, he used to stay at Ediping. MR SANDI What department was he in? MT MBEWANA He was not a police, but he was just a driver at Mlambabeki. MR SANDI Is that all Mr Mbewana that you would like to tell us? Is there anything that you would like to say. MT MBEWANA Yes, there is something else because even now DUNCAN VILLAGE HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 6 MT MBEWANA that I have recovered, I had a car - people know that car. One day I was driving with Bravido who was accompanying me to the petrol station. When I was going passed the shops, there were soldiers who were pointing their guns downwards, when I came back, there was another boy, they said I must turn. I must take this car to the camp, military base that was there. We went inside, we were ordered to face the wall and open our legs, we had to place our hands on the wall and they asked this boy - this little boy asked me why did I make a certain sign to him. MR SANDI Besides that you are injured in your eye, what else, where else were you injured? MT MBEWANA My both thighs were injured. MR SANDI Is there any treatment that you are getting or maybe you are in a condition that allows you to get medical attention? MT MBEWANA What I can say is this, I am no longer like before. I was not a short-tempered person before, even at work, I always quarrel over petty issues. Even the staff at work is aware of that, so my state of mind is no longer the same as before. MR SANDI Is there any other way that you were affected by this shooting? MT MBEWANA The most important thing is concerning my nerves. I'm just nervous and when I am looking at my health, my whole being, I am not the same. MR SANDI Is there anything that you would like to say Mr Mbewana, just before I ask you another question? MT MBEWANA There is something else. The other day I was driving from Mr Bravido's house. DUNCAN VILLAGE HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 7 MT MBEWANA MR SANDI Were you shot on that particular day? MT MBEWANA No, I was not. MR SANDI I would like you to tell us about the day when you were shot or maybe something happened, maybe the assault. What happened? MT MBEWANA When I arrived at home, my home is next to the road. I discovered that I couldn't get in because there were soldiers blocking the road. MR SANDI What happened after that? MT MBEWANA I just decided that I am going to force my way, I'm going to force my way to my yard. I did so. When I alighted from my car, the soldiers were already standing next to my car and they said to me, come kaffir. They were calling me. MR SANDI In your statement, Mr Mbewana, you referred to the people who shot you. Do you still remember that? MT MBEWANA On that particular day the people who shot me, were White. They were Whites. MR SANDI I am going to hand over to the Chairperson, Mr Mbewana, thank you very much for your testimony and your co-operation. REVD FINCA Revd Xundu. REVD XUNDU Mr Mbewana, there was another Mr Mbewana here before you. Is the Mbewana that we are referring to the one you say he is your uncle? MT MBEWANA No, he is not the one. That other one is in Transkei. REVD XUNDU What was your relationship to him? Were you related? What happened? MT MBEWANA I was brought up by the Mbewana family. Both of them are my uncles. DUNCAN VILLAGE HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 8 MT MBEWANA REVD XUNDU Thank you. Were you in this condition because you were a political activist? MT MBEWANA On that particular day I was still a silent member, I was not yet any member of the political organisation, because I was afraid of my uncles. REVD XUNDU Thank you Mr Chairperson. REVD FINCA Thank you very much Mr Mbewana. We thank you for this testimony. We have taken into consideration all of your requests. Even if you wish that we must bring the perpetrators forward for compensation, though we know that that is not the aim of the Commission, but we know that that is your wish, our investigation is based on finding the perpetrators and bringing them forward to tell the truth, so that after that there would be reconciliation, but we have taken into consideration your wishes and your request. We are going to forward them to the President who will be the one who will be looking at all your requests. Thank you very much, you can now go back to your seat.