hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1996-09-23 DUNCAN VILLAGE 1 WILSON VANDOYI https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55075&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/duncan/vandoyi.htm REVD FINCA: Thank you very much Mr Mbengo. I would now call Wilson Vandoyi. REVD XUNDU I would like him to take an oath Mr Chairman. REVD FINCA Thank you Mr Vandoyi for coming in front of this Commission. Revd Xundu will take you in oath in the name of the Truth Commission and he will be the one asking you questions on behalf of the Commission, thank you. REVD XUNDU Please stand up Mr Wilson. WILSON VANDOYI (sworn states) REVD XUNDU Chairperson and the President of this Commission gives me this opportunity to ask you questions. What is your clan name sir? W VANDOYI I'm from the Mtandi clan. REVD XUNDU Thank you. In your statement you said you were staying in the men's hostel. Were you there with your family or alone? W VANDOYI I was staying there with my family. REVD XUNDU On this day on which you were arrested, you said you heard the shots being fired, can you please tell us what happened on that day? W VANDOYI On that day I went out of my house at about four o'clock. I went out of my house after four o'clock and I went through the Douglas Street. I went through the Douglas Street, when I was approaching the hostel, I heard shots being fired. DUNCAN VILLAGE HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 2 W VANDOYI REVD XUNDU What time was it at that time? W VANDOYI It was after four o'clock, but I'm not sure, but it was before half past four. I hears shots being fired, while I was still looking around, I heard the bullet in the back of my arm. I fell down. It was still, the sun was still light, it was not dark. I didn't see the people who were shooting me. I just heard noises from the hostel. I was still conscious a little bit at that time. People from the hostel said that the person who was shot should be taken. Two policemen came and I had the bullet inside my body. I wanted to stand up but I couldn't. REVD XUNDU Where did the police take you? W VANDOYI They took me to the hospital. REVD XUNDU What happened in the hospital? W VANDOYI I was semi-conscious but when the police came to me, I regained my consciousness. While I was in the van, the police van I was unconscious. I didn't know where I was. I regained my consciousness at night in the hospital. REVD XUNDU Please continue. W VANDOYI I regained my consciousness in the hospital at night and I was feeling pain and I was also afraid. REVD XUNDU You got scared, and did you sleep over at the hospital? W VANDOYI I didn't know where I was. On the morning I slept two weeks in the hospital and we went home. Before I went home, I slept there on Friday. On Monday it was the third day, three policemen came and they were wearing green clothes and they were called the Green Barrets in the township. They asked me my name and I told them. They asked me DUNCAN VILLAGE HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 3 W VANDOYI other things but I don't clearly remember. REVD XUNDU Did you recognise this policemen? W VANDOYI No, I don't know who they are. REVD XUNDU Did they come back on the 18th as you've said in your statement? W VANDOYI Yes. After the three policemen went, the other two policemen came the same day. They asked details and they went. On the 18th they came to my house and they told me to go to Frick Street and I went there on the morning, on the 19th. I went there on the morning of the 19th. REVD XUNDU What happened in Frick Street? Did you give any statements? W VANDOYI Yes. REVD XUNDU Who said that ... (intervention) W VANDOYI The policeman who brought me from home. REVD XUNDU Do you know his name? W VANDOYI I think his surname is Qoboshiyane. REVD XUNDU Did you write a statement? W VANDOYI Yes, I did, but I firstly asked the question before writing the statement. They said that the statement concerns the way I was injured. They asked me whether I knew the people who shot me and then I said no. REVD XUNDU Did you really not know the people that shot you? W VANDOYI No, I didn't know them. REVD XUNDU Did you know whether they were policemen or just ordinary people? W VANDOYI I know they were policemen, because they were in the police van wearing green clothes. REVD FINCA I want you to be clear, I don't want you to DUNCAN VILLAGE HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 4 W VANDOYI say you don't know whether they were policemen or what, I want you to be clear and specific. Do you say you were shot by policemen or ... W VANDOYI Yes, they were policemen. REVD FINCA Thank you. Please continue. REVD XUNDU Where did you meet Jeram? W VANDOYI After submitting my statement I went to Jeram. REVD XUNDU Did you submit your statement? W VANDOYI Yes, I did. REVD XUNDU You went to Jeram? W VANDOYI Yes, after submitting my statement. I told him what happened. REVD XUNDU Were you trying to claim? W VANDOYI Yes, I was. He asked me questions of whether I know these people and then I told him that I don't know this policeman, I was just on my way, I didn't see any van. I didn't see any police van, I just saw it when they took me with it to the hospital. He tried to submit this claim but he said that I don't have a witness. REVD XUNDU What about the people from the hostel who saw you? Did they come to give evidence? W VANDOYI No, they did not. I went to them, those who said they saw me when I was shot, but they didn't go there. REVD XUNDU In other words you didn't get any witness to support your story? W VANDOYI Yes. REVD XUNDU Did you go to Black Sash? W VANDOYI Yes, I did. REVD XUNDU What about Mr Lalla? W VANDOYI I went to one Doctor, but I forgot his name, DUNCAN VILLAGE HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 5 W VANDOYI he gave me Mr Lalla. REVD XUNDU Ma Lalla is a lawyer. W VANDOYI Yes, he's a lawyer. I received a letter from Mr Lalla calling me to come to his office. But the case was difficult because he said I didn't have a witness and I don't know who shot me. REVD XUNDU In your statement to Officer Qoboshiyane, did you tell him that you were shot by policemen? W VANDOYI Can you please repeat. REVD XUNDU When you were making your statement to Mr Qoboshiyane? W VANDOYI Yes, I did tell him that I was shot by policemen, but we didn't have a witness. I told Mr Qoboshiyane that I was shot by policemen. And after taking the statement he came to take me to the place where I was shot and I showed him that I was sleeping there. REVD XUNDU At this time it was the time of political activities. Were you a member of any political organisation? W VANDOYI No, I was not a member. These people shot you when you were alone. REVD XUNDU Were you alone or were there any other people with you? W VANDOYI I was alone at that time. REVD XUNDU Were you working at that time? W VANDOYI No, I was not working. REVD XUNDU You were staying there with your wife? You were staying in the hostel with your wife? W VANDOYI I didn't say I was staying in the hostel. REVD XUNDU Were you not staying in the hostel? W VANDOYI No, I didn't stay in the hostel, I was just DUNCAN VILLAGE HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 6 W VANDOYI passing the hostel on my way to Duncan Village. I was staying in Duncan Village. REVD XUNDU Where exactly were you injured? W VANDOYI On my lower shoulder. REVD XUNDU As a result of that, do you have any problems with your shoulder? W VANDOYI Yes, I do because my arm cannot work properly. I had an operation. REVD XUNDU Did you work after this incident? W VANDOYI No. REVD XUNDU Do you have any other means of support now? W VANDOYI No, but I tried to apply for a pension and I succeeded at that time. But now they told me to go to the Doctor in order to receive more pension. REVD XUNDU Do you have any request to the Commission? Although we are not deciding the one who are deciding what to do with the people's cases, but will you please just tell us your request. W VANDOYI My request to the Commission is since I am unable to work at this present time, I can't even - I can't work with my arm because it is so painful. My request is that I have five children and I would like the Commission to educate my children. REVD XUNDU Which standards are they? W VANDOYI The first one is in standard 8, the second one is in standard 7, the third one is in standard 3, the fourth one is in lower standards and the last one is not at school. REVD XUNDU Thank you sir. REVD FINCA Any questions? You were behaving yourself during the day so I hope that you will behave until the end. DUNCAN VILLAGE HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 7 W VANDOYI There are situations which need to be laughed, but please don't do that for a long time. We'll give this opportunity to Mr Ntsikelelo Sandi to ask questions. MR SANDI Thank you Chair. Mr Vandoyi, I would like to ask you some questions in order for me to get some clarity on what really happened. Firstly do you know who shot you? W VANDOYI No, I don't know. MR SANDI Do you have any suspicions of who shot you? W VANDOYI No, I don't have any suspicions, I was just on my way - there is no one who I can say who might shoot me. MR SANDI You said this happened on the 28th of November 1986? Were there any other things happening here in Duncan Village? W VANDOYI No. There was nothing happening on that day, there was no toyi-toyi on that day. MR SANDI On the spot where you were shot, was there any conflict between the people and the police? W VANDOYI No, there was no conflict. There was nothing on that day, there was no toyi-toyi. MR SANDI The people who saw you being shot, what did they say? W VANDOYI The ones I went to they just said they saw me when I was taken by the police, the two witnesses. When I went to them, they didn't want to go to the lawyers. When I went to them, they didn't want to come out, they were so scared. MR SANDI These are the people who said you were shot by the police? W VANDOYI Yes. MR SANDI What were they afraid of? DUNCAN VILLAGE HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 8 W VANDOYI W VANDOYI I don't know, but it seems as if they were afraid of being arrested. One of them said so. MR SANDI Do you know where we can reach these people? W VANDOYI I wrote their name when I was submitting my statement. MR SANDI Thank you Mr Vandoyi. Thank you Mr Chairman. REVD FINCA Mr Vandoyi, you said the two witnesses was so important in the story, you know their names? W VANDOYI Yes, I know their names. REVD FINCA I don't see their names in your statement, can you please give us their names? I don't see their names in your statement, will you please give us their names? W VANDOYI They are Mlulami Jwambi. Mlulami Jwambi. REVD FINCA And the second one? W VANDOYI Sonwabo Xoko. Sonwabo, the surname is Xoko. REVD FINCA Do you know where they are staying? W VANDOYI Yes. They are staying here in Duncan Village. They are staying in Mgaleni Section. REVD FINCA Do you meet them now? W VANDOYI Yes. REVD FINCA Why did they refuse to support you since they have this important information about your story and their information seems to be the only one who can help this case to continue? Why did they refuse? W VANDOYI They said they were afraid, they were scared of being arrested, because at that time people were arrested a lot. In 1986 people were arrested when testifying. REVD FINCA Since we are free now, why are they still afraid? W VANDOYI When I submitted my statement, I wrote their names. DUNCAN VILLAGE HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 9 W VANDOYI REVD FINCA Were they afraid at that time? W VANDOYI Yes, they were afraid before we got freedom. REVD FINCA Thank you. Dr Kahn, as you have mentioned him in your statement, was he the Doctor who examined you after you got injured? W VANDOYI Yes, he also sent me to Mr Lalla. REVD FINCA Was it Dr Kahn? W VANDOYI Yes. REVD FINCA Where can we reach him? W VANDOYI I think he left this place, he is in Cape Town. He was here in day, in day hospital then, but he is in Cape Town now. Maybe you'll find he's there in the hospital although he's gone. My file is still there, I forgot something. After I went, going to Jeram, I didn't get my file in the hospital. I looked for it, but I couldn't find it, and they made me a new one - the second one. I couldn't find the first file. REVD FINCA Thank you Mr Wilson Vandoyi for submitting the statement. As we have already said, we would like as a Commission to meet with these two witnesses and we will also try to investigate and to find out where are the files for Dr Kahn so that we can get details. We'd like to thank you for bringing this forward. This is our chance to try to continue with your case. We will try by all means to try and help you with your case. Thank you.