hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1997-05-22 ERMELO 1 MAMANE G MABUZA JB3500 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55078&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/ermelo/1ermabuz.htm MR LEWIN Can you hear us ? Can you hear us speaking through the headphones ? Is that better ? Can you hear now ? Can you hear the translation ? Can I try again ? Can you hear through the headphones ? TRANSLATOR MR LEWIN Is that better ? Is that better now ? TRANSLATOR Yes, she says she can hear. MR LEWIN You can hear ? Lovely. Mama Mabuza what our procedure is that you will be led by one of the Commissioners and to-day we ask Dr Randera to help you in telling your story but before you start can I ask you please to take the oath and I would ask Russel Ally please to lead you in that oath. DR ALLY Mrs Mabuza do you swear the testimony that you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God ? MAMANE MABUZA (sworn states) Thank you. Thank you. Dr Randera ! DR RANDERA Mrs Mabuza, good morning. Can you first of all introduce us to the lady who is with you. MRS MABUZA DR RANDERA I welcome Mrs Dube as well. Thank you for coming to-day. You are now sixty six years old. MRS MABUZA DR RANDERA MRS MABUZA DR RANDERA Is there anything else you want to add about the actual killing. In your statement you described what was done to your daughter. Do you feel at ease about telling us what was done to your daughter ? MRS MABUZA DR RANDERA Just tell us a little more about Queen. You said she had just matriculated. Did she have any children ? MRS MABUZA No, she never had any children. DR RANDERA MRS MABUZA DR RANDERA In your own words and your own time tell us your understanding of what was happening in the community at that time. You have mentioned the Amakati, The Black Cats as they were called, the gangs. Where did they come from ? How did they come into existence ? MRS MABUZA DR RANDERA MRS MABUZA DR RANDERA Do you know whether this, from your understanding, do you feel that there was any relationship between this gang and any political party on the one hand whether it be the Incatha Freedom Party, the African National Congress, the Nationalist Party ? Also, from your discussions with people in the community, was there any relationship that people thought there was between this gang and the police ? MRS MABUZA DR RANDERA MRS MABUZA We usually used to identify them as they walked around in groups and the children or the youth would identify them as the Inkatha group which were calling themselves The Cats. DR RANDERA Thank you. Let me just come back to Queen. Was Queen involved in any political grouping as far as you know ? MRS MABUZA As far as I know, no. DR RANDERA MRS MABUZA DR RANDERA MRS MABUZA MRS MABUZA MRS MABUZA Yes, there is quite a number of people who were murdered but on that particular day she was the only one that was killed. A number of them were killed over the days. Some before her, some after her. DR RANDERA At the funeral, did the community give you a great deal of support ? Did any political organisation give you support ? MRS MABUZA No. We did that single handed as a family. We had no support whatsoever. DR RANDERA MRS MABUZA No, she was never involved in any of those things. She was just a student. An ordinary student. DR RANDERA Thank you very much, Mrs Mabuza. I have no further questions Chairperson. MR LEWIN MR MANTHATA MRS MABUZA MR MANTHATA MRS MABUZA No, they never came. MR MANTHATA Never came. At Church level, was she a Churchgoer ? What did the Minister say about her ? MRS MABUZA Yes, she used to go to African Full Gospel Church. However we received no help from the African Gospel Church nor any condolences. MR MANTHATA MRS MABUZA MR MANTHATA Would you then say she could have been killed for rituals, you know these ritual murders or ? MRS MABUZA MR MANTHATA You never knew what Inkatha wanted or what was it fighting for in the community ? MRS MABUZA DR RANDERA Did you ever know that Inkatha was a political party ? MRS MABUZA Yes, I do. ... (interrupted) MR MANTHATA Thank you. MRS MABUZA Because we used to be informed by the youth who knew better than we did. MR MANTHATA Thank you Mama. MR LEWIN Mama Mabuza, if I could just ask one further question. You ask us to trace a case number. Now in your statement you do mention a case number from 1990. Was that the case where you actually reported ? MRS MABUZA Yes, that is. My husband reported the whole matter to the police. That is the number that you have in my statement. The matter never proceeded to court. MR LEWIN There was no further action as far as you know, taken by the police in following up this case ? MRS MABUZA MR LEWIN Ma is there anything else that you would like to tell us ? MRS MABUZA MR LEWIN Ma Mabuza. MRS MABUZA I still feel very terrible. MR LEWIN MRS MABUZA MR LEWIN How many children do you still have ? MRS MABUZA There are four. MR LEWIN MRS MABUZA Mrs Dube wants to say something. MR LEWIN Mrs Dube do you want to add anything ? MRS MABUZA MRS DUBE I did not think there was a need for me to add anything else because she said whatever I think needs to be said. MRS MABUZA MR LEWIN Ma Mabuza, I think what we could do there, we do have your statement which is very full. If Mrs Dube could possible see the statement takers and make another statement as well. That would be the way to do it. Okay ? Thank you very much indeed.