hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1997-05-22 ERMELO 1 PHUMZILE N VILAKAZI JB3770 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55082&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/ermelo/5ermvila.htm MR LEWIN I would like now to call two of our earlier witnesses who have now arrived. If I could ask Phumzile Vilakazi please to come forward and testify. Ma Vilakazi can you hear me through the microphone ? Can you hear clearly the voice of the translator ? MRS VILAKAZI Yes, I can hear you. MR LEWIN MRS VILAKAZI MR LEWIN MRS VILAKAZI You can use any name you choose, even if you call me Phumzile, that will fine. MR LEWIN Thank you very much. Before calling on Tom Manthata to lead you in your evidence, could I ask Doctor Ally please to swear you in. DR ALLY Phumzile would you please stand and raise your right arm, you right hand. Do you swear that the testimony which you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God. PHUMZILE VILAKAZI (sworn states) DR ALLY Thank you. MR LEWIN Thanks very much. Tom Manthata ? MR MANTHATA Phumzile I hope you are relaxed. Please be relaxed. Are you working Phumzile ? MRS VILAKAZI Yes, I am. MR MANTHATA MRS VILAKAZI I do not have a husband. We separated. MR MANTHATA You are separated. Your children ? Were there children ? MRS VILAKAZI I do have children. MR MANTHATA Who are at school ? MRS VILAKAZI MR MANTHATA Can you please tell us about, ... are these your brothers Fanie and Dingani ? MRS VILAKAZI They are my children. MR MANTHATA MRS VILAKAZI Dingane was shot by Maschilwane, a CID. I tried to get some legal advice. I went to Prinsloo and he was going to institute civil action against Njomo but when my son died he said he could not continue with the legal proceedings because my son had died. MR MANTHATA Are you okay ? Are you ready to answer questions Sylvia ? MRS VILAKAZI MR MANTHATA MRS VILAKAZI He said with regard to Fanie. MR MANTHATA Fanie. MRS VILAKAZI MR MANTHATA MRS VILAKAZI They said they were just asking as to what was happening. Why were they harassing Mike Malindi so ? That was all. They did not fight but they tried to intervene. MR MANTHATA What has become of Njomo ? MRS VILAKAZI MR MANTHATA Malindi does not even know about Njomo too ? MRS VILAKAZI I have no idea whether he knows where Njomo is. MR MANTHATA Was Njomo a policeman or Njomo was just an ordinary ..... MRS VILAKAZI Yes, he was a member of the South African Police. MR MANTHATA And how related, what was the relation between Fanie and the Malindi family ? Were they students or were they just both youths in the township ? MRS VILAKAZI Yes, they were friends. MR MANTHATA MRS VILAKAZI MR MANTHATA Would you say that this kind of quarrel that could have been between Fanie and Njomo, had it any political content in it ? MRS VILAKAZI I have no idea but what I know is my son was a member of the ANC. He was quite active within the ANC. MR MANTHATA He was a student at the time ? MRS VILAKAZI He was working at the time. MR MANTHATA He was working. Was he part of the youth league or was he just a worker with Xhosa too, perhaps from that level having the relations with ANC? MRS VILAKAZI MR MANTHATA Okay, it is true that Fanie died after a long period of illness but at his death, did the ANC, any ANC Constituency show sympathy or support to the family ? MRS VILAKAZI No. MR MANTHATA You have no idea what the youth at the time could have done that could brought that kind of anger of Njomo against them ? MRS VILAKAZI MR MANTHATA And if I understand you well, you are saying Fanie used to attend the meetings of those who were remotely or immediately involved in the violence of the day or in the confusions of the day ? MRS VILAKAZI Fanie was not a thug. MR MANTHATA MRS VILAKAZI MR MANTHATA Was that Njomo himself ? MRS VILAKAZI Gita. MR MANTHATA Njomo used to, sorry Gita used go along with Fanie, or ... MRS VILAKAZI Yes, Gita used to go along with Fanie. MR MANTHATA Okay. And what story did Gita tell you ? MRS VILAKAZI No, Gita was at work at this time. We only met him at the hospital. MR MANTHATA MRS VILAKAZI No, I never did. No, there was nothing. MR MANTHATA And was he a student, Dingane, or was he working too at the time ? MRS VILAKAZI He was just fresh from prison so he was not working. MR MANTHATA And having come out of prison did he affiliate to any of the community organisations at the time ? MRS VILAKAZI No, he was not involved in anything that took place in our area. No political organisation or a gang. MR MANTHATA So, now you are left with how many children Sylvia ? MRS VILAKAZI Three. MR MANTHATA Three. These two were the eldest to those that are still with you ? MRS VILAKAZI Yes, they were. Fanie was my first born and Dingane was my second borne. MR MANTHATA Okay. No further questions. MR LEWIN Thank you. Any other questions ? Doctor Ally ? Doctor Randera ? DR RANDERA Mrs Vilakazi, I just want to follow up on what you said. That the police were not interested in taking a statement from you. Is that right ? MRS VILAKAZI DR RANDERA But did they take a statement ? MRS VILAKAZI DR RANDERA And when your lawyer, Mr Prinsloo, approached the matter, what was said by the police ? MRS VILAKAZI He never related to me as to what they told him but he told me that he was taking the matter further. DR RANDERA Now, Fanie died almost five months later. Is that right ? Oh, sorry, two and a half years later. Can you tell us what he died of ? MRS VILAKAZI Ever since he was shot by Njomo, he was sickly and he had these sores that could not be cured. DR RANDERA So it was a direct complication of the shooting as far as you understand it ? MRS VILAKAZI Yes, it was a direct complication because the bullets were not extracted from his body. He remained with the bullets until he died. DR RANDERA Can I just come to Dingane. Dingane died the next day as you say in your statement, from the shooting. Was there an inquest ? Was a post- mortem done ? MRS VILAKAZI I was never told but they told me that he was dead on arrival. DR RANDERA So you were just given a death certificate by the hospital. MRS VILAKAZI I was never even given the death certificate. They told me that he had been sent to Johannesburg and I phoned my brother to find out more and when we phoned the Johannesburg Hospital we were told that he was dead on arrival and we went to Mashilwane, the policeman who shot him and we asked him to fetch him from Johannesburg because we did not have money. He asked me, if he was the one who was shot, would I have gone to fetch his corpse ? DR RANDERA MR LEWIN MRS VILAKAZI MR LEWIN MRS VILAKAZI MR LEWIN But was he actually charged then, when he was taken into custody ? MRS VILAKAZI MR LEWIN MRS VILAKAZI No, I have no idea. MR LEWIN Do you now how long he was in detention ? MRS VILAKAZI I do not remember. MR LEWIN