hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION HEARINGS 1996-06-19 GEORGE 2 CT/00534 NKOSINATHI HLAZO MARIA NOTHOBILE HLAZO DIED AS A RESULT OF BEING SHOT AND TORTURED EN ROUTE TO THE HOSPITAL https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55093&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/george/ct00534.htm DR RAMASHALA Would you like to take the oath or make an affirmation? MS HLAZO I would like to make an affirmation. NOTHOBILE HLAZO Duly sworn states DR RAMASHALA Mary Burton will facilitate the witness please. MS BURTON Thank you. Good morning Ms Hlazo, you have come to bring to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, two complaints, the killing of your son Nkosinathi and your own detention for a two month period, is that correct? MS HLAZO MS BURTON The killing of your son happened in Lawaaikamp, is that right? MS HLAZO Yes. MS BURTON [indistinct] Lawaaikamp? MS HLAZO No I am not staying in Lawaaikamp I am staying in Oudtshoorn. MS BURTON [indistinct] remind the members of the public that during February 1986, there was widespread unrest in Lawaaikamp and in the third week of February of 1986 at least three people were killed. They were Sebenzile Suswana, Meanwell Lakeyi and Mbuyiselo Jona Jack. And then on the 1st of March there was a funeral service for the three men and during that service an allegation was made that a Mr Madlavu Mathuka was a police informer and the angry mourners at the funeral attacked Mr Mathuka and his wife and children and Dr Allan Boesak, who was going to speak at the funeral, protected them and helped them to get away. Earlier on in that time, a Security Policeman had searched the church premises and afterwards a microphone and battery pack were discovered there. Later that afternoon the house of Mr Mathuka was burnt down and all of these things were happening in Lawaaikamp at the time. Later also in the following weeks the home of Mr Africa Nqumse was burnt down and he was employed by the Development Board and he himself was necklaced. Now your son, Nkosinathi, it was reported that he was shot while he was evading the police who were wanting to question him in connection with the death of Mr Nqumse. And we would like you to tell us in your own words, of his death and your experience at the time. Please go ahead and tell us your story. MS HLAZO MS BURTON Will you tell us what people told you then about what happened to Nkosinathi. MS HLAZO It was this burn down of a house that I heard about. MS BURTON And then what happened afterwards? MS HLAZO MS BURTON [indistinct] told you that this happened and you went to look for him in the hospital is that right? MS HLAZO Yes I heard this while I was in Oudtshoorn, I was passing by the other house, I was on my way from work, two women just ran inside the house - I was just about to pass, they called me inside, the other woman said can you please phone your brother in George, and ask him how are they. I went out of there and they - they grabbed me and gave me some pills, because I was so nervous, I felt dizzy. After some few moments I felt much better and then I left. I went down the road and I saw two men driving a trolley, assuming that there was washing on that trolley. I asked them where can I go because my child is not here in hospital and they said no the children are on the side where you were coming from and I told them mine is not there. And they told me to go to - go to ongevalle. I had to go straight down, I saw a - two doors written push, I just pushed myself in, there was nothing to - a handle on this door, I was wondering how am I going to get out. I just go on, I saw a big open space, there were only beds there and there was a big table in the middle of that hall and there is also a man hopefully it was an operation theatre because [indistinct] they were busy operating him. About five to eleven there was a lady coming to me, she was a white lady, she asked me what am I looking for and I told her. And she was so sorry and she left me there. And the sergeant asked whether I was still standing there and the policeman were coming in standing beside the sergeant and I told them that I am still waiting for my son. Because the others are in the hospital, where is the third one. I went out, the policemen were right inside - were inside the house, it was full - my house was full of policeman. I went to the dining room, the policemen were also full - they took all the books, kids books, school books, they throw them down, there were many women in the kitchen, they told me not to run and I told her no I am not going to run. I took water an get a wash, now my mind got a standstill I was wondering how am I going to put on my clean coat - clothes, I washed myself, put n my clothes, and then I left with the police. I prayed again they said they are changing me to the other ward, because this one is smaller. They took me to this cell, they were not taking me to a ward, they were taking me to this single cell. I was taken out towards six, where I met people from Graaff-Reinet and Aberdeen. Up until the day we were released we were in Ward 6. MS BURTON Thank you very much Ms Hlazo for telling us all of that the sergeant in the police station who was so rude to you when you were asking questions about Nkosinathi, do you know who he was? MS HLAZO MS BURTON MS HLAZO MS BURTON Thank you, and was Nkosinathi a member of Bhoyo is that why they came to ask for the books. MS HLAZO MS BURTON Thank you - the time that you - the police came to take you and - in the van and the other people that you told us about, the - the people - you gave us the names or the identifies of some of the people who were with you in the van and then afterwards when you were - when you were held....[intervention] MS HLAZO Yes it was a priest Ms Madikane, they were already in the van and this little guy - child. MS BURTON In George when you were kept in the single cell and when there were other, then some of the time you were in the single cell for four days and then some of the time you were with other people is that right? MS HLAZO MS BURTON [indistinct] and after the single cells, did they take you back into the other cells? MS HLAZO From the single cell I was taken to another cell, Cell 6, it was bigger than the others, where I met women from Graaff-Reinet and Jansenville. MS BURTON Do you know those women, would be able to get statements from them? MS HLAZO MS BURTON [indistinct] from Graaff-Reinet and Aberdeen did you say. MS HLAZO Yes. MS BURTON DR RAMASHALA Ms Hlazo while you were in detention did the police ever beat you or physically abuse you at all? MS HLAZO DR ALLY MS HLAZO DR ALLY And these clear allegations against your son of arson and murder, what - what happened after that, after your son was killed, did the police ever come back on these issues, or did they just leave the matter? MS HLAZO DR ALLY And is the case still with the lawyer now? MS HLAZO Now when I ask for the papers, he gave me the papers and he said if - is there anything like claim that appeared I must just - I must go back to him again and tell him. DR ALLY [indistinct] papers now? MS HLAZO I do have the papers, the girl - the lady who was taking the statement gave me the Photostat copies. DR ALLY Thank you very much. DR RAMASHALA Ms Hlazo how old was Nkosinathi when he died? MS HLAZO He was 22 years. DR RAMASHALA And was he working? MS HLAZO He was a student. DR RAMASHALA Was he your only child? MS HLAZO No he was not my only child, I do have others. DR RAMASHALA Could you briefly tell us what the - what has been the impact of his death and also the impact of your detention? MS HLAZO I for one I struggled - spoiled my health as from 1985, we were not settled down, because policeman had to come back in and out looking for my older son, he said he was the one who gave the influence, the UDF is in the location because of him, so he decided to go to exile. DR RAMASHALA [indistinct] is it your daughter who has a bullet in the stomach? MS HLAZO Yes I am talking about my daughter now. DR RAMASHALA [indistinct] saw the doctor? MS HLAZO MS BURTON MS HLAZO There is nothing else I would like to say. MS BURTON [indistinct] with us today, you and your family have paid a very heavy price, and we - we give you our sympathy, we hope that your prayers will help you to come to terms with what has happened and we will do what we can to see if you and your family can be helped in ways to improve your health. Thank you very much indeed for coming, you can go down now.