hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION HEARINGS 1996-08-12 GEORGE 1 CT/00567 SIPIWO IVIN STUURMAN SIPIWO IVIN STUURMAN SHOT BY POLICE https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55097&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/george/ct00567.htm MS BURTON Press the button so that you can speak into the microphone. I see that you have somebody to support you is she a relative or a friend? MR STUURMAN A relative. MS BURTON A relative, you very welcome. You want to use a headset or can you - you are all right. Mr Stuurman will you please stand to take the oath. SIPIWO IVIN STUURMAN Duly sworn states MS BURTON Thank you, Chairperson we have heard this afternoon from Sidney Yabo, from Jan Molowitz and from Thabo Metsing, and we were expecting to hear from the brother in law of Jerry Ndishi. And we are now going to hear from Sipiwo Stuurman. They were all victimised in similar ways, in a similar period and we earlier today thought - in memory of Jerry Ndishi who at the age of 13 was shot dead on the 1st of January 1988. I am going to ask advocate Potgieter to help Mr Stuurman in telling us his story. ADV POTGIETER Thank you Mary - good afternoon Mr Stuurman. Are you comfortable? MR STUURMAN Yes. ADV POTGIETER Good, you have waited a while to get your change to give your testimony. I thank you for your patience. As Mary had indicated, yet again your story takes us to that era when the kitskonstabels were operating in the township in Beaufort West . The incidents had happened as Joyce Seroke has indicated this morning between about May/June of 1987 to about the beginning of 1988. And your story again relates to that period and you are also one of those people who fell victim in that - in that era. But before we get to the shooting incident, involving the kitskonstabels, your story starts a bit earlier than that, it starts at the time when you were still schooling in 1985. So can I ask you to start at that stage when you were still at school in 1985 and then take us through to the actual shooting incident where you were injured. So would you start by - by telling us about the situation when you were still at school. MR STUURMAN That time I was the Chairperson of COSAS, and my name was in the fore to an extend that in 1985 I had to disappear, trying to run away with my life, because people were after me and I had to walk by dark. Even the time I had to write examinations, it was difficult, but the principal Mr Hanavo helped me with the lamp to give me light in the staff room where I wrote together with my friend Peter Mbalo. We then wrote our examination and we succeeded and I went to state whether we got good results or not. Because I would say perhaps it was the fear of the principal because he could see the harassment too. So we use to chat and they would tell us more about Bloemfontein. Then just a week before the re-opening of the schools, I one day decided to do my washing - it was a hot day and I had a T-shirt that loved so much, and I had - I was putting it on. And little was I aware that it was going to bring me some problems. So I fetched water, on my way I met - I think it was a policeman who questioned me in Sotho/Zoeloe and asking me what this was, then I told him this was a T-shirt. And he asked me who was there, then I said it was Tshaka who had been killed by the police. I waited for a while and someone - and he was pretending as if he was erasing what was written on the briefcase. Then my friend said - he said to my friend you can see I have helped you because I have erased all these words you have written on the briefcase. Then he even scolded us for shaking. And then there was no truth that came out. He kept on asking questions about what do we know about ANC and many other questions and he asked why there was this briefcase written ANC and ultimately he took me and someone was tired of the interrogation. So he told us he was going to beat us up, so I went out with this white man, leaving my friend behind, screaming. And I knew they were going to beat me even there. So he introduced himself as luitenant so and so, then he asked me to sit down and I sat down. He asked me tricky questions saying I had burnt churches - schools the houses. I accepted everything because there was no alternative because I could they were going to beat me. Then he said he loved me, and he said he had got a report from Beaufort West that they were looking for me, then I told him that there I had come to attend school because there were no std 8 where I came from. And then he said we would meet every Wednesday, I should hide in that house. So I agreed to everything he was saying to me and they did the same to my friend Deniso. So I felt it was useless for me to continue staying there, I should just escape somehow. Then I went to Minister Rev Ndendaswe and I explained to him that - and asked him to take me out and hide me somewhere. Then he refused because he said what would my parents say. Then he said to me he did not sufficiently - not have sufficient petrol. Then the Reverent was forced to take me somehow. We had come back to the house, we had paid even school fees. So she asked us to stay and he said he would introduce us to some lawyers. They tried to get tickets and then we got lost, when I got home I could see that they were still after me. My parent are very unhappy until they were compelled to take me away to the Ciskei and this was in March and I again attended school there. That was in 1981 and I passed. Just after I had crossed the street - just when I was about to get into her yard there was a very close range shot. I heard a gun sound - a sound and I was hit here on the hip, I turned and ran away. This person persuade me and kept on shooting - shot twice. I then collapsed next to another Reverent Kelem who died, then they took me to hospital. I was still conscious then, then Dr Storm operated on me and the police came and I recognised Warrant Du Toit who called the doctor aside and they talked and the doctor came back and said to me asking that I should be tied with straps. And he was even trying to operate on a [indistinct] bone and I would protesting. So they said I was becoming mad so they should tie me and I was protesting. Fortunately my father came and stopped them and said they should leave me the way I was. Then they should send me to Cape Town - he was going to pay the costs. So they let - and this gave me another impression because every time he would be working they would be talking aside now and again together with the police. I was - I just decided to stop the - taking the treatment and I went home and I was at home for - in 1988 for the whole year of 1988, then in 1989 I decided to go back to school. And even there my - I tried to study my Std 10 and I was not happy. And he insisted that I should take it as a gift but I did not except it. Then he said they could sent me to University, we even mentioned some friend that they sent to school. They would say I would be like him and I was shocked when I heard this. So you could see we were not in good relation with my father, he came because I also wanted to find out certain things from him. I said yes money can help but how can you come to home, he would say this would be very easy. Because they had - he was a boer, a white man, he said to me there are certain things that they smear on their faces and he would leave the police van next to the school and he would walk into the location and to our house and no one would be able to identify what kind of a person he was and also his nationality. ADV POTGIETER Did they then in fact stop or Van Wyk did he then stop harassing you after you saw the lawyers, so you called in the lawyers? How did you get rid of this Van Wyk eventually? MR STUURMAN Can you repeat your question, sir? ADV POTGIETER How did eventually get rid of this harassment , how did you put an end to it? MR STUURMAN ADV POTGIETER MR STUURMAN I got to know after I had been discharged that it was Dotho Shawi, Toto Saisy. ADV POTGIETER And have you made any case against him? MR STUURMAN ADV POTGIETER And was that successful? MR STUURMAN Then I heard later on that my other - my lawyer was Mashemu Wetly and she - I was offered a certain amount of money and I should - that they asked me to accept it. And then I did accept it because I was behind at school, I had arrears I had to pay for catering, for tuition and she also deducted money 2 - 2,5. ADV POTGIETER Okay, now the injuries that you sustained in the shooting incident, which were those injuries to what part of the body was that? MR STUURMAN Both legs. ADV POTGIETER Where you shot in both legs? MR STUURMAN Yes. ADV POTGIETER What has been the consequence of that, are you - can you walk normally, can you play sport - what - what was the consequence of the injury to both legs? MR STUURMAN I cannot walk normally, I can no longer run, even the soccer I used to play I can no longer play it. ADV POTGIETER How far did you eventually get at school? MR STUURMAN ADV POTGIETER And when did you leave the University? MR STUURMAN ADV POTGIETER And what were you studying at that stage? MR STUURMAN I was doing BA in Education. ADV POTGIETER And why did you leave University? MR STUURMAN I had financial problems and academic problems as well. ADV POTGIETER The academic problems is a result of that - of what was that? MR STUURMAN ADV POTGIETER So it eventually came back to the financial problem that - that is really the - was that the main reason why you had to leave? MR STUURMAN ADV POTGIETER You - you were otherwise progressing normally through the - the course that you were doing? MR STUURMAN I was not doing well in all the courses but I passed. ADV POTGIETER Do you - do you intend going back to complete your studies? MR STUURMAN Yes, I will be very please of going back because there is nothing I can do except that I go back to school. ADV POTGIETER At the moment what do you actually do? MR STUURMAN Yes, I have a part time job and I go there once or twice a week to work. ADV POTGIETER Is there any other way that you feel that the injury that you have sustained had effected you? MR STUURMAN ADV POTGIETER Is there anything else to which you want to draw our attention, any thing else that you want to tell us or ask us? MR STUURMAN ADV POTGIETER Okay, thank you very much for that full account, Mr Stuurman. I thank you for giving evidence. CHAIRPERSON Thank you, any? UNKNOWN COMMISSIONER You now say there was some money that you got, how much was it? MR STUURMAN CHAIRPERSON We - we have just one more witness to take but we are going to take a short break because our - the interpreters and I think everybody would like to stretch a bit. So if we can break now and come back at four. Order please, order.