hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION HEARINGS 1996-06-11 GEORGE 2 CT/04603 LATHLI MABILO, SHEILA MABOZO MARY MABILO [mother], FLORENCE MABILO [sister], SHEILA MABOZO [grandmother] SHOT AND KILLED https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55099&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/george/ct04603.htm MS SOOKA Are you able to hear me, okay ...[intervention] WITNESSES Yes, we can hear you. MS SOOKA MARY MABILO Duly sworn states ADV POTGIETER Thank you. MS SOOKA Could Florence please stand? ADV POTGIETER Are your full names Florence Matlakala? MS MATLAKALA FLORENCE MATLAKALA Duly sworn states ADV POTGIETER Thank you. MS SOOKA You may be seated. Could Sheila Mabozo please stand? SHEILA MABOZO Duly sworn states ADV POTGIETER Thank you. MS SOOKA You may be seated. As is customary when we have witnesses testifying we allocate a Commissioner to assist you with the leading of the evidence. In this case it will be Advocate Potgieter who will assist you to tell your story. Please feel free and comfortable - this is your moment. ADV POTGIETER We will start with Ms Mabilo - Ms Mary Mabilo. The incident you are about to give evidence on concerns your - the shooting of your son way back in 1987. But before we get there perhaps you can tell us who you are, where you live. MS MABILO ADV POTGIETER The incident concerning Lathli your son happened in 1987, is that correct? MS MABILO ADV POTGIETER MS MABILO ADV POTGIETER Can you tell us about that incident, Ms Mabilo? MS MABILO UNKNOWN The interpreters can not hear the speaker. The mike is not on. MS MABILO ADV POTGIETER MS MABILO ADV POTGIETER MS MATLAKALA ADV POTGIETER [indistinct] belong to any organisations, your brother? MS MATLAKALA He was in the [indistinct] organisation and he was in the ANC. ADV POTGIETER [indistinct] who arranged that funeral. Was it the family or was it an organisation or what? MS MATLAKALA His organisation together with the family organised the proceedings of the funeral. ADV POTGIETER MS MATLAKALA ADV POTGIETER MS MABOZO I stay at Kagiso 108, that is in Ipopeng. ADV POTGIETER And is that where the incident happened - the shooting incident where Luthli was killed? MS MABOZO ADV POTGIETER Are you the Aunt of Luthli, the deceased? MS MABOZO ADV POTGIETER His grandmother? Now this incident that happened, can you explain what - what actually - what took place? MS MABOZO He started shouting, he said: Mum they are taking me away. ADV POTGIETER MS MABOZO Yes, we can carry on. ADV POTGIETER What happened further? MS MABOZO And I asked him whether should I open the house so that the children can prepare themselves to go to school and he refused. When I got into the house at - at a later stage everything was broken, windows were broken. All the shelves were upside down and they - they shot the walls. Even now there are holes - bullet holes. On Sunday they came to fetch me and they took me to the 6th floor. When we arrived there, they put me in a - in a room and they let me sit on the chair. ADV POTGIETER Ms Mabozo I - I just need to take you back slightly because it is important for us to have all the facts. I just want to go back to the incident itself. Now you explained that at one stage after your husband was taken by the police you were told to go outside with the children which you did. Now, can you explain to us again from that point when you were outside in the street with the children and you said Luthli was inside the house. Can you - can you explain to us what happened, how did the shooting happen? MS MABOZO ADV POTGIETER Was - was Luthli inside the house together with the police or - or what happened? We just need to understand exactly ...[intervention] MS MABOZO They shot him the first time, he was alone in the house. He was in the passage, they were outside but the door was open. But when he shouted: Mother, he fell on his knees and then they got into the house - they closed the door. ADV POTGIETER Did the police shoot tear gas into the house at any stage? MS MABOZO They started with the tear gas first - they shot the tear gas first. ADV POTGIETER Now, what - what happened when you went back inside your house, what did you see inside there, what was the condition of your house and the furniture? MS MABOZO ADV POTGIETER Now I just want to see whether I understand the evidence correctly. Was it after Luthli was shot that the police went into the house and when a lot of shots were fired inside the house? MS MABOZO They shot Luthli and they got into the house and they started shooting - they continued shooting. ADV POTGIETER And afterwards could you see in which direction the - the police were shooting. Could you - could you see marks in the house - bullet marks? MS MABOZO The one that is - the bullet mark that is in the house is the one that was shot from outside. ADV POTGIETER [indistinct] with him on that morning when the police came to your house? MS MABOZO ADV POTGIETER Before that - the shooting happened was he living with you for some time? MS MABOZO ADV POTGIETER Did you see any weapons - any arms during that time that he was with you for about a month? MS MABOZO ADV POTGIETER MS MABOZO ADV POTGIETER MS MABILO We can forgive all people besides Terra, I would like him to appear before me and explain to me. ADV POTGIETER Is there anything else that you feel that the Commission could do for you apart from Terra? MS MABILO ADV POTGIETER MS MABILO ADV POTGIETER And assume that it is a policeman? MS MABILO ADV POTGIETER Here in Kimberley? MS MABILO ADV POTGIETER Ms Mabilo thank you. MS SOOKA