hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION HEARINGS 1996-06-19 GEORGE 2 CT/05906 GAMA MTHAMZELI GAMA MTHAMZELI ARREST AND TORTURE https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55103&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/george/ct05906.htm DR RAMASHALA Are you all right Mr Mthamzeli. MR MTHAMZELI Ja I am all right. DR RAMASHALA Okay. GAMA MTHAMZELI Duly sworn states DR RAMASHALA Chairperson I have been assigned the task of facilitating evidence this case involves the arrest and torture of Mr Gama Mthamzeli at Mossel Bay police station on or about June 17th 1985. I will ask Mr Mthamzeli to tell this in his own words, giving as much detail as is possible so that we can understand what happened. Could you proceed please Mr Mthamzeli. MR MTHAMZELI It was 1985, I was at school then, I was still in primary school doing Std 6. I was 15 years old. Policemen came at the school premises, there were three of them, they were seemed to be detectives. They said I am in need in the police station. They tried to hunt me at school, I had to flee - they took me to the police station. When we arrived there, I said nothing, they just put me into a separate room, there was a Coloured, I saw his name Captain - Gerhard Maritz - there was Captain Gerhard Maritz and Captain Jordaan. After that I had to cry because it was painful they said I must tell the truth, I told them there is nothing I know. They went out, leaving me alone in the room, they came back again and they said no - we been just accusing me. The other member who were also with you, they knew everything so you were also involved. In 1986 I was a part-time worker, there was a project in the location there was a white guy whom we use to call Oubaas, we were working under this guy, he was our employer, I was not at school then. I wanted to support my family because we were studying, I was trying my best, so that we can have shelter, I can supply food to my family. If everything went well I wanted to go back to school, so I tried my best to work. I told him that I also had nowhere else to hide, so I advise you go to my employer and ask for a job up until the State of Emergency is over. And then you can go back home to George. On the 16th of June Maritz came to me with my uncle Michael James, they took me there, I was at work, they beat me with the back of the gun and they also take Dangiso, we were taken and be beaten. I was sent to the prison in Mossel Bay. I was also beaten there, even my ears are still sore. We were beaten there like anything and we were thrown into a van and it was very cold, because it was winter. They took us to George. DR RAMASHALA Did you say that Michael James was your uncle? MR MTHAMZELI Yes he is my uncle. DR RAMASHALA He was part of the group of policemen who arrested you? MR MTHAMZELI Policemen were there when these people were beating us, he was not part of the law enforcement people - he was not even a kitskonstabel then. DR RAMASHALA In our statement you say that you yourself was accused of being a sell-out by the police. MR MTHAMZELI I would also like to know - I would also like my friends to know that it was the boers who tried to make this conflicts between us, it was not me, that is their way - that was their procedure of searching for the truth that were - they looking for. DR RAMASHALA You were detained for is it 19 days or 14 days? MR MTHAMZELI Before I went to court it was 14 days. DR RAMASHALA [indistinct] during your detention you say that they used the famous genital torture method, how many times did they do that during your detention? MR MTHAMZELI DR RAMASHALA Chairperson I will [indistinct] to my colleagues and I may come back for some other questions. DR ALLY Gama the first time they arrested you was in 1985 when you were 15 years old and you were accused of burning down the rent office, and cars and that time your punishment was 8 lashes - did you go to court and did they find you guilty, how did they decide on 8 lashes? MR MTHAMZELI They decided on this - we did go to court, but we changed the magistrate. It was not one magistrate who was taking control of my case. When we went out for tea time - then I come - we come back, this is not the person on the chair as - as it happened even after lunch, the person on the chair was not the one who was there before the lunch time. DR ALLY [indistinct] any lawyers who - a lawyer who was representing you? MR MTHAMZELI DR ALLY So did the State provide any legal representation for you in 1985? MR MTHAMZELI DR ALLY [indistinct] you ere arrested again, that was the second time under the State of Emergency and your statement says that you were sentenced to nine months imprisonment, what was the charge? MR MTHAMZELI DR ALLY On the 16th of June they arrested me in terms of the State of Emergency, they hit me with the [indistinct] of the gun in order to me into the Casspir. I was sentenced to nine months imprisonment. Now were you sentenced to nine months imprisonment or were you detained for nine months? MR MTHAMZELI It was - I was detained, it was nine months, it was six months that I was detained of, not nine months imprisonment, six months in detention. DR ALLY [indistinct] in 1986 there was never any court case against you. MR MTHAMZELI DR ALLY MR MTHAMZELI DR ALLY Thank you I am sure that the - the people in the Reparations and Rehabilitation have heard your request and I am sure that they will try and do something about that particular issue. MS BURTON Mr Mthamzeli you were detained in Mossel Bay did they keep you in the police station or in prison cells, was there a particular people where people who were detained were held and interrogated? MR MTHAMZELI MS BURTON [indistinct] was in the police station, police cells? MR MTHAMZELI During the six months detention I was in the George Prison where I was with the other prisoners who were sentenced already. Although it was not a nice meal to had for a day, although I had something for my stomach, unlike the one I had in the past. MS BURTON We have tried to find some of the records from the police stations from that time, but they are not available, so we would be glad if you could give us the names of people for instance who were in prison with you at the same time, so that we can follow up witnesses statements. MR MTHAMZELI I can give you the names. MS BURTON And then there is another question that I would like to ask, you referred to Mr Michael James, where is he now and what is he doing now? MR MTHAMZELI He is still working in the municipality offices, because he resigned from the - as a kitskonstabel after he finished shooting children, they youth - in 1986. 86/87 he was still a kitskonstabel and then in 1989 he went back to the municipal offices, where he is - he working - he is still there, he is in the location of Nonqaba in Mossel Bay. DR RAMASHALA Chairperson I want to observe the tragedy in South Africa where some of the doctors - the role they played during the oppression years. Doctors take their Hippocratic oath to save lives, the role they played during the oppressive years, actually certifying people to ensure that they can withstand torture - this is very unfortunate. MS BURTON Thank you very much. MR MTHAMZELI I also thank you a lot.