hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION HEARINGS 1996-06-19 GEORGE 2 CT/06803 ANDILE KOBE THOZAMA KOBE [brother] BEATEN TO DEATH BY, POLICE https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55108&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/george/ct06803.htm NATIONAL ANTHEM IS SUNG AND DR RAMASHALA READS OUT THE NAMES OF THE CASES TO BE HEARD AND THE VIOLATIONS THEY SUFFERED MS BURTON Thank you, before we ask the witnesses to come forward to give their testimony, I would like to welcome everybody here this morning and to welcome particularly some of our special guests. I see that we have Bishop Damant with us again this morning, you very welcome. I am not sure whether the Mayor of George is here, he was yesterday and we were very glad to have him. Then we have had other pastors and church leaders and we are very grateful indeed to them and to all of you for coming. It is enormously important and part of the work of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission that we should make very evident the events that we are talking about here and that they should be heard and recognised by as broad a cross section of the public as possible. It is part of achieving that reconciliation for which we aimed that we should be able to understand one another and our experiences. I would also like to thank particularly people who have given us their help in setting up these hearings in George - we just welcome some more of the people who will be giving their testimony and their families. We thank also the interpreters who day after day are providing a simultaneous translation of the stories and you will have the headsets I hope that will enable you to - to hear the translation. We thank the South African Police Services for their protection of the building and the people involved and we thank the Press for their support and their coverage of these days. I think we ready to begin with the first witness. DR RAMASHALA Yes madam Chair may I call the first witness, Thozama Kobe. It is customary for witnesses to start first by taking the oath, however any person who objects to taking the oath for any reason, shall make an affirmation instead of the oath. Ms Thozama Kobe do you wish to make the oath. MS KOBE Yes. THOZAMA KOBE Duly sworn states DR RAMASHALA MS SEROKE Good morning Thozama, I would like you to take your earphones off, because I am going to speak Xhosa with you. When I am talking English you can use them, Thozama I would like you to tell us that what happened on March 1988 to your brother Andile Kobe. Would you please tell us short and brief so that we can be clear of what happened. MS KOBE I took a special car and follow to the direction where the incident had happened. When we arrived there, he was not there, I just took his cap where he was lying and his watch was also there. I went to the police station in Sandkraal, he was there when we arrived. They were still hit - beating him. Firstly he ran out to a dam - into a dam, one kitskonstabel came and fetched him out, they take him back to the small hall and they beat him again. He was crying - asking what did I do, no-one could listen to him. There were many of us who waited - I tried to call but there was no answer and we went back to the police station. I asked the security, the whereabouts of Andile, he told me that he is in hospital. I asked him how injured is he, and the man told me that if he is in hospital he has been badly injured. MS SEROKE And you also followed them and saw them taking him into the van - was Andile badly beaten during that time? MS KOBE He was quite by that time. MS SEROKE Did you follow the van to the beach? MS KOBE And they switch - take the lights off and come back. MS SEROKE MS KOBE MS SEROKE This policeman who were beating your brother, do you know them. MS KOBE MS SEROKE MS KOBE MS SEROKE Was Andile in the struggle - was he one of the political members. MS KOBE Yes he was one of the political members in Jansenville. MS SEROKE Why do you think they beat him? MS KOBE He was just walking on the street and they took him there and beat him on the street. MS SEROKE Did he approach policeman and assault him or just go and check him in the house. MS KOBE No. MS SEROKE Andile Kobe was a 22 year old electrician and political activist from Sandkraal near George. While walking home, Kobe and his company decided to take a short cut past a neighbours house on the night of 19th March 1988. Kobe and the neighbour got involved in an altercation as the latter objected to the company taking the short-cut on his property. The police were called immediately and two of the three policeman started assaulting him with a sjambok and a kierie. Three policemen, members of the Riot Squad were charged with his murder. In May 1989 a former Oudtshoorn riot policeman, Andre Schutte - age 19 - was sentenced to twelve years imprisonment for bludgeoning Kobe to death. His two former colleagues, Pieter Koen - age 21 - and Cornis Serfontein - age 22 - were each sentenced to seven years jail for attempted murder. Koen testified that during the assault Schutte said to Kobe. Vrek kaffir vrek. Yesterday we heard of Michael Lucas who within three months trial was sentenced to death and hanged for killing a white man. But in this instance I will read you what the lawyers for Human Rights said about the case of Schutte and his colleagues. The outcome of this case illustrates once again the double standards applied by both the office of the Attorneys General and many of our Judges and Magistrates. We have conclusive proof that equality before the law is not a human rights enjoyed by the citizens of the country. We are particularly distressed at the following trends 1. Where a group of black people are involved inn a killing invariably as many as can be identified and charged with murder based on the common purpose doctrine and vigorously prosecuted. 2, Where a group of white people [particularly farmers and policemen] are involved in the killing of a black person, invariably only the main perpetrator is charged with murder, the others with offences ranging from culpable homicide to common assault. The prosecutions proceeds almost apologetically. 3. Black people convicted of murder, particularly when a white person is a victim, are sentences to death in disproportionately high percentages. 4. White people convicted of murder, particularly when a black person is a victim are sentenced to death in disproportionately minute percentages. For example in 1983 of the 21 whites convicted of murdering blacks, not one was sent to the gallows. So Thozama we are told that these three policeman are still in jail. Is your mother still alive. MS KOBE Yes I do have my mother and she is here with me. MS SEROKE By coming here today, what would you like us to do as the Truth Commission, what would you like to do on behalf of your brother, because these policemen were arrested and they are still behind bars, even today. There is nothing we can do about that, hopefully they will suffer for what they did and they will pay the price of what they did. What would you like us to help - what can we do as the Truth Commission? MS KOBE MS SEROKE [indistinct] my colleagues if there are anymore questions. MS BURTON Thank you. DR ALLY Thozama if you know, can you tell us maybe a bit of what was happening in George at the time when your - when your brother was killed. Was their a lot of political activity taking place? MS KOBE DR ALLY And before Andile was killed, was he involved in any political activities that you may know of. MS KOBE DR ALLY [indistinct] was killed was there any police harassment, were the police interested in him or watching him or was he ever arrested before he was killed? MS KOBE There were no policeman looking for him before his death, he was just a happy person, they were not looking for him. MS SEROKE Ms Kobe how old was your brother when he died? MS KOBE MS SEROKE MS KOBE DR ALLY Did Andile have any children of his own before he died? MS KOBE Yes he has got - he had children. DR ALLY [indistinct] killed he was going to get married. MS KOBE MS SEROKE How old are the kids? MS KOBE His first son if I get this all right is 11 years old, the other one is 8 years old. They are both sons. MS SEROKE Whom are they staying with? MS KOBE They are staying with my mother - she brought them up, they are still at school. MS BURTON [indistinct] about - about your brother and we - we thank you and your mother for being here today. Is there anything more that you want to say? MS KOBE There is nothing I would like to say. MS BURTON You can leave the platform.