hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1997-04-09 GRAHAMSTOWN 3 NONZIMA EDNA BIKISHI https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55112&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/gtown/bikishi.htm CHAIRPERSON: We would now like to call Nonzima Edna Bikishi, Koloman James Mantile, Zinakile Eric Peter. REVD XUNDU Mr Chairperson, with your permission, I would like to swear them in. NONZIMA EDNA BIKISHI (sworn states) KOLOMAN JAMES MANTILE (sworn states) ZINAKILE ERIC PETER (sworn states) REVD XUNDU Thank you. Mr Chairman, they have been duly sworn in. CHAIRPERSON Ms Maya? MS MAYA Thank you Mr Chairperson. I greet all of you. I would like to start with Mr Peter. Mr Peter the incident which you are going to talk about involve your wife, Nomavokutu Topsy Peter, is that correct? MR PETER Yes. MS MAYA This happened in 1986. In your statement there is no date except that it happened in 1986. Is this the same date as the mother and gentleman next to you? MR PETER Yes, all three of us. This happened in the same day. MS MAYA Do we agree that it was the same date? MR PETER It was in 1987. MS MAYA Thank you. What was happening, what was the situation in your area because it is not clear why the police went to people's houses and kill them? MR PETER Nothing was happening Ma'am at that time. We were sitting at home, I was just coming from work. I was sitting with my wife and my grandchild. We were sitting in the couch, it was myself, my wife, my grandchild and my daughter-in-law. We heard a gunshot. These people were coming towards my gate. I was trying to go out and look at what was happening. My daughter-in-law told me not to go out because those people had guns on them. They then came to us and asked us why were you shooting at us. MS MAYA Were these people asking you why were you shooting at them? MR PETER Yes. MS MAYA Please come nearer to the mike, sir. MR PETER These people asked us why are we shooting at them. My daughter-in-law then answered them, telling them that nobody was shooting at anyone. They then told her to shut up. They shot at me, but I managed to bend down. They then shot on top of me. While we were still looking at that, they shot my wife and my son. MS MAYA What do you mean by saying that? Did they kill them? MR PETER They shot my son and then they beat my wife in the head. MS MAYA How was she injured? MR PETER I don't know, but she was taken to the hospital and she passed away in hospital. MS MAYA What then happened to you? MR PETER My son did not go to a Doctor, I did not even go to a Doctor. MS MAYA In other words people came in your home, you were sitting at home, relaxing at home, your wife was beaten up and she died? MR PETER She died. MS MAYA Who was this people? MR PETER They were the Amangundwana with their overalls. MS MAYA Did you notice any one? MR PETER Yes, I noticed Madoda, he is staying in Fort Beaufort. MS MAYA Do you know his surname? MR PETER No, I don't know his surname. MS MAYA Is he still alive? MR PETER He is in prison, he was sentenced for 20 years. MS MAYA Was he sentenced for this case? MR PETER Yes, because he shot four people and they died. MS MAYA Thank you sir. After his arrest, did you lay a claim? MR PETER Yes, I hired a lawyer. MS MAYA What happened about that claim? MR PETER I did manage to get a certain amount, but it was not enough. I built a house for my children. I have eight children. MS MAYA In your story here, you mention that these people left your house and they shot Lhelhe, they also killed Mrs Mandile. Is this Lhelhe Mbenge and Mrs Mandile? MR PETER Yes. MS MAYA Were you members of any political organisation? MR PETER No. MS MAYA In other words you were just shot by the police, you were not aware of what was going on? MR PETER Yes, that is true. MS MAYA Do you want to add something in your story? MR PETER Yes, I would like to be helped and to be assisted, to be supported for my children. MS MAYA Do you have any other requests, sir? MR PETER No, I've got no requests. I don't want to waste your time. MS MAYA Thank you sir. Mr Koloman James Mantile, in your statement you speak about two people, Mrs Jane Msuthukazi Matyani and also Johnson Matile, is that correct? MR MANTILE Yes, that is correct. MS MAYA Was Jane your wife? MR MANTILE Jane was my brother's wife, Pakamile Johnson Mantile. MS MAYA Was Johnson Jane's husband? MR MANTILE Yes. MS MAYA Were they both killed on the same day? MR MANTILE Yes. MS MAYA What happened to you, why were they killed? MR MANTILE I was at number 13 G Street and they were at number 28 Victoria Road with this mother and Peter. I was on my way back from work at 5 pm where I was working at Lewis Stores and I went via my brother Johnson's house. We were planning to go somewhere which was a church meeting. And that was in 1987. And he said, look I am not going to make it, he was working at GG at the time, the Waterworks. He was driving these bulldozers and loaders and the machinery used there. I said to him, give me your jacket and your tie, I am going to go. I am not going to go via home, I am going to go straight to the church meeting. MS MAYA What happened when they were shot, what time were they shot? MR MANTILE They were shot at approximately 7 or 8 pm. MS MAYA What news did you receive? MR MANTILE I was in J Street when a child came to me and said Uncle Pakamile has been shot. The child didn't know why but the scull and brain was scattered all over the wall. Is it possible that this person is still alive, it was just a small child. My wife and I spoke and said this is very difficult to understand and she said that she did not think I should go alone. We decided to go and tell my younger brother. When we got there, we discussed what to do and we could see that it was quite busy. MS MAYA When you went there, what did you find? MR MANTILE When we got there, the place was full of soldiers and policemen and people and we were asked where we were going because no one was to go there. We said that we were there to see what had happened. We were family of the person who had been shot and then they opened up a way for us to go through. MS MAYA What were things like when you got there? MR MANTILE When we got to the house, I found my brother sitting like this, half of his head was shot against the wall. Where he was sitting when I - he was still seated where I had left him sitting, and there was a hole in the wall and his - half of his scull had gone through that hole into the bedroom. His wife was still holding the potato which she was peeling and the bullet had penetrated her on one side and gone out on the other side. MS MAYA Did you receive details of what had happened? MR MANTILE We enquired from the time we were coming on, we asked White policeman coming out on the other side of the school, carrying bottles of wine. MS MAYA In your statement you say that these White policemen were intoxicated to such an extend that they told the court that they were so drunk that they did not know what they were doing? Did your brother and his wife have any kids? MR MANTILE Yes, they are with me. MS MAYA How old are they? MR MANTILE The oldest boy has been circumcised and the other two are also grown up now. MS MAYA Are any of them still at school? MR MANTILE Yes, two of them are. MS MAYA Is there anything else which you would like to say to us, with regards to the story? MR MANTILE It is a long story but it is basically what I have told you but because nothing else could be done about the fact that they were dead. MS MAYA Was a trial ever heard at court? MR MANTILE Yes, there was a trial where we were represented by De La Harpe. And as this gentleman said that policemen were found guilty. MS MAYA Were these policemen the same municipal policemen? MR MANTILE Yes, they were guarding the school because it was month end and they had received their salaries. MS MAYA What were their respective sentences? MR MANTILE It was - the one who was found guilty, was the one who was found who had shot at my brother and who seemed to have emptied his cartridges on him MS MAYA Did you receive any compensation? MR MANTILE Yes, we did receive a bit of compensation after having instituted a civil claim. MS MAYA What is your request or what is your wish which you would like to express before this Commission? MR MANTILE I would like to ask this Commission for assistance. More so in regard to the children because there are so many things which have now become my responsibility since the death of my brother and his wife. MS MAYA Is there anything else you would like to say? MR MANTILE No, besides reiterating my request for help with the children and I also have an important request especially in regard to their death. I never received any kind of compensation because when I, or any satisfying response because even when I tried to enquire about why his wife was shot, we were just told that she wasn't working anywhere and I would like an investigation into their deaths so that these children can receive some kind of answer to the questions. It is very difficult for me. MS MAYA Mrs Bikishi? Mrs Bikishi, your story is about Phindile Lhelhe Mbenge? What was he to you? MS BIKISHI He was my husband. MS MAYA What happened to you? He was also shot that day without you knowing why. Where was he? MS BIKISHI I was busy preparing his supper and he was sitting on the bed. MS MAYA What happened? MS BIKISHI These people knocked on the door and I was wondering who knocked and they - he went to open the door and they wanted to know why we were throwing at them and he wanted to know why should we throw stones at you, we don't know you and the one hit him with a sjambok and he fell on the bed and as he was getting up, the other one said, shoot at him. Because I did not know them I came in and I asked them what are you doing? The one said shoot this rubbish as well. And they shot me in my leg, but I survived. And my health has never been the same. MS MAYA Your husband died there and then? MS BIKISHI Yes, he did. I lost consciousness in the room and when I regained consciousness, I shook my husband, thinking he had also just fallen and lost consciousness the way I had. The police then came in and they said oh, dear, this person had passed away and they could see that I was confused and they decided to go and load me into a van or an ambulance or something and take me to the hospital. MS MAYA Were these the same policemen who were prosecuted in the matters of the gentlemen next to you? MS BIKISHI Yes. MS MAYA Did you institute a civil claim? MS BIKISHI No, but his family arrived that night. MS MAYA You never received any compensation then? MS BIKISHI No, I did not. I just received a little bit for my loss of blood. MS MAYA Do you have any request before this Commission? MS BIKISHI Yes, I do because I need help. I am not well, I am ill. MS MAYA Do you receive any pension or disability grant or anything from the Government? MS BIKISHI Yes, I do. MS MAYA Thank you very much Mrs Bikishi. Is that all you have to say? MS BIKISHI Yes. MS MAYA I thank you all and I now hand you back to the Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON Mr Peter, Mrs Mandile and Mrs Bikishi, we thank you. If you were not residents of South Africa, we will not believe what you've just told us. The cruelty of people who were behaving like animals. We thank you for telling us your story today about this mini massacre. We have noted your requests and we will forward them to the President. We apologise for opening wounds for you, but we thank you for coming to the Commission to give this testimony, you may go back to your seats.