hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1997-04-07 GRAHAMSTOWN 1 ZIMASILE JOSEPH BOTA EC0509/96 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55113&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/gtown/bota.htm REV XUNDU Zimasile Joseph Bota, please stand up. ZIMASILE JOSEPH BOTA (Duly sworn in, states). REV XUNDU Thank you, you may sit down. CHAIRPERSON We welcome you Mr Zimasile Bota. We will hand over to Tiny Maya who will lead you with questions on behalf of the Commission. MS MAYA Thank you, Mr Chairperson. I greet you Mr Bota. This afternoon you are going to tell us about yourself. The police tortured you in 1986. Is that correct? MR BOTA Yes, that is correct. MS MAYA We have a statement in front of us. We have two dates, March 1986, we also have tenth and 11th of April 1985. Are you going to talk about two separate incidents? MR BOTA Yes, I am going to talk about two separate incidents. MS MAYA From 1985? MR BOTA Yes, from 1985. MS MAYA Before you can do that, we saw that you were arrested, you were accused of killing a white farmer. What year was this? MR BOTA It was in 1986. MS MAYA Can you please start in 1985. What was happening in the community? What happened when you were arrested by the police? MR BOTA Firstly, I was a Vice-Chairperson of Adelaide Youth Congress. We were affiliated to the UDF. We gave our constitution to the detectives, at that time Wessels and Ghani and Makline, because we wanted them to know that there is an affiliation of UDF in Adelaide and we were members of that organisation. There was also a student organisation, COSAS, in Adelaide. One of the students was arrested. It was on a Monday when the student was arrested. He was taken to the police station. The police were arresting him because he was one of the people who attended a meeting. When the students went to ask the police why the student was arrested, the police said that they found drugs, dagga, in him. In 1985, on the tenth, the youth were toy-toying and singing freedom songs in the streets. At about 20 past seven up to eight o' clock the two policemen who stayed in our same street, three gunshots, we heard three gunshots. One of the students by the name of Themba Letu Tikane was killed. At that time I was not aware that there were people who were injured. I went home, I had dinner, my friend came at about 12, after 12 at night. There were three policemen. I was together with Mondi Nkonki. They were beating us. They took me out of the room. When I was out of the room I saw that there were soldiers outside and there were two police vans. There were cars and an ambulance. They were beating me and assaulting me all the time. MS MAYA During all this time were they asking you any questions MR BOTA No, they were just assaulting me. MS MAYA Do you know the people who were assaulting you? MR BOTA I managed to see three of them. It was Fezekile Springbok, Mantewu and Mbulelo Tom. MS MAYA What happened? MR BOTA They took me to the police van, they separated us in the vans. They assaulted me until I arrived at the police station. As a result of that I got injured in my head. They took us to the police station together with my friend. I was stitched in the head and I was bandaged and they took me back to the police station. MS MAYA What hospital is this? MR BOTA It was a provincial hospital in Adelaide. I saw that there were two boys sleeping there. One of them was beaten in the head and one of them in the stomach. They were shot, they were the ones who were injured at the time of the shooting. What happened is that they took us back to the police station. They told us that one of them was dead. MS MAYA: Did you know the two people who were shot? MR BOTA I knew them after we were released from prison. MS MAYA Do you know their names? MR BOTA Yes, it was Themba Letu Dikana and Mufisle Misilele. MS MAYA Please continue. MR BOTA It was on a Wednesday night. On Thursday we did not appear in court. On Friday we did not appear in court. We appeared in court on Tuesday, the following week. Mr Enkanon was our lawyer. We were taken back to prison. The following week on Thursday we were released on R30,00 bail. MS MAYA Were you charged of anything? MR BOTA Yes, it was public violence. MS MAYA What happened to that case? MR BOTA They would suspend the case and we would go back to court. On the 16th of June 1985 I was detained. MS MAYA On the June 16th, is it after you were released on the case of public violence? MR BOTA I was released on bail, 25 of us were released on bail. We use to go to court. If something happened in the township, they would come and pick us up. I was arrested for burning down a police house and damaging property. MS MAYA What happened to the two cases? MR BOTA The cases were dropped in Adelaide, but I was not there at the time. MS MAYA In other words, you ran away from Adelaide? MR BOTA Yes. MS MAYA What happened to you? When did you come back? MR BOTA I came back in 1987, in December 1987. MS MAYA What was happening when you came back? MR BOTA I was told that the cases were dropped. Nobody was found guilty. MS MAYA You said that you were arrested in 1986. Where were you at this time? MR BOTA In 1986, as we were appearing in court, I was at, at home in 1986. The reason why I left home is that I saw that everything that was happening in the township, we were seen as responsible for it. We were taken on a Wednesday, because we were accused of killing white farmers. The police said that I was responsible for that. I told them that I did not kill them. MS MAYA Where did these farmers, where were they killed? MR BOTA They were killed near the farms in Adelaide. MS MAYA Were there any people arrested or charged due to this? MR BOTA Some people lost their memory, because they were beaten up by the police. MS MAYA What happened to the case? MR BOTA I do not know what happened to this case, because I stayed for six days, I was detained for six days. I went to Louis le Grange and they transferred me to Algoa and to Adelaide. MS MAYA You were released? MR BOTA Yes, I was released. MS MAYA At the time you were arrested, what was the conditions in the cells? MR BOTA What happened in the first night, they took me to the police station in Adelaide. There were three of them, Mbulelo, Twalo and one guy by the name of Nyakanyaka. He was from Murder and Robbery Squad. When he came to our home he said that he was a member of AZAPO. He said that they were looking for guns. He told me, after that he told me that these two farmers were killed. They took me to the police station, they assaulted me. They said that I must tell the truth. I told them I know nothing about this killing, because I was at home at that time. I was hand-cuffed and they placed a wet bag on my head and they strangled me. They switch off the light before they torture you. You would not see who was torturing you because it was dark. They took this bag to, they placed it in water and they came back and this bag was wet and they repeated this thing. They put this bag over my face. I was unconscious. When I woke up I was lying down. After that they allowed me to regain consciousness. MS MAYA When were you released? MR BOTA It was on Monday night. MS MAYA You stayed for six days there? MR BOTA Yes. MS MAYA You were tortured all these days? MR BOTA Yes. MS MAYA What happened to the accusations? MR BOTA I do not know. They were dismissed. MS MAYA All of the accusations? MR BOTA Yes. MS MAYA But they tortured you. MR BOTA Yes, they tortured me. MS MAYA What about your health, your state of health after all this? MR BOTA As the police assaulted me and beat me in the head, when I arrived in Uitenhage my ears could not hear clearly. I went to the day clinic. The Sisters asked me whether I was beaten in the head. I told them, yes. They asked me when. I said in 1985. They gave me an oil for my, to treat my ears and that oil helped me and I could hear clearly. MS MAYA What is your, how is your state of health now? MR BOTA I have no complaints. MS MAYA In your statement you were also accused of necklacing a girlfriend and you were detained for seven months in St Albans. When was this? MR BOTA It was in 1987. I was arrested in October 1986, on the 31st of October 1986. When I left home to Uitenhage I met Comrades there under Metisis Toto. There was a project here whereby houses were being renovated. The Comrades gave me a position in that project. As we were working there, there were ladies who had affairs with the municipal police. They were taken by other Comrades. I was not there at that time. I just saw two police vans and a combi and two ladies came out of that van and they pointed me. The policemen came and they beat me and they assaulted me. They took me to the police vans. They asked Lungelwa whether I knew who Lungelwa was. I was, I became scared because I had a sister by the name of Lungelwa. I wondered what happened to Lungelwa, but it was not the Lungelwa I knew, because it was, this Lungelwa was one of the ladies who were necklaced. They showed me a photograph of her and they asked me to identify the Comrades who were together with me when we were raping and necklacing these ladies. I was then arrested for seven months. MS MAYA Did you know Lungelwa Ginigini before this incident? MR BOTA No, I did not know. MS MAYA Do you know why were you accused of necklacing her MR BOTA No, I do not know. MS MAYA Is that all you wanted to say to this Commission? MR BOTA Yes, that is all. MR BOTA Do you have a request to the Commission? MR BOTA My request is that it is very painful to me, because the Government is telling us, saying that we must forgive the perpetrators. It is very difficult to forgive someone who was an enemy, who is still an enemy even today. We cannot forgive them because they are still our enemy. MS MAYA Two last questions. The police you mentioned that they were together in your street, Fezekile Springbok and Mantewu, what happened to them? MR BOTA Fezekile is still there, but I do not know where Mantewu is. MS MAYA What is the relationship between Mantewu and, between yourself and Springbok? MR BOTA When he greets me I look on the other side. I do not look at him. MS MAYA The last question. During the seven months you were in prison when you were accused of necklacing Lungelwa Ginigini, did you appear in a Court of Law? MR BOTA I was, I appeared in the Regional Court in Uitenhage. MS MAYA What happened there? MR BOTA The case, they told me that they will, my case will be heard in March and they postponed the case in May and the witnesses that pointed me did not appear in court. They did not come to testify. The detectives that arrested me together with the Municipal Police did not appear in court. I was just told that the case was dismissed. MS MAYA Thank you. Do you have any other requests to add? MR BOTA One of my requests is that the perpetrators, the Government must bring them forward. We cannot work together with the police. We know that the police are protecting us, but we cannot work with the police who have blood in their hands. We are still Comrades, they are still dirty, they are doing dirty jobs. My request is that the police must come forward and the Government must see what to do about the police. I will be satisfied if they come forward, although I was not killed, but others were killed. MS MAYA Thank you, Mr Bota. I will hand over to the Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON Mr Sandi. ADV SANDI Thank you, Mr Chairman. Mr Bota, when you say the police, you cannot co-operate with them, because they have dirty hands filled with blood, do you mean every policeman or certain policemen? MR BOTA Not all of them, because, for example, in Adelaide we were killed by black policemen. No white policemen killed people. Certain black policemen killed our people. They would repeat this. ADV SANDI You say that those with dirty hands have to be brought forward, something must be done about them. Can you please give an example of what can be done? MR BOTA If they cannot be sentenced, they must be dismissed from work. ADV SANDI In your statement you mentioned that you were accused of killing a white farmer. What happened to that case? MR BOTA That case was dismissed because after the six days of detention they came to the community, they picked up young men who were not involved in anything. They were assaulted and tortured. Some of them lost their health and memory. ADV SANDI Was there a farmer who was killed at this time? MR BOTA Yes, there was a farmer who was killed at that time. ADV SANDI According to you knowledge why was this? MR BOTA I do not know, but the people, detectives from Murder and Robbery Squad, the reason why they accused me is that they said that we were using the slogan of Peter Mokaba. ADV SANDI The killing of white farmers in Adelaide, was it a usual thing or was it the first time such a thing happened? MR BOTA It was not a usual thing in Adelaide, but although it happened before and the people who did this were killed by the, they were not Comrades, they were criminals. When this happened in 1986, the police came to us as we were Comrades. ADV SANDI The last question. Briefly, the relationship between the community and the white farmers, what was the relationship between these two? MR BOTA As I am always in the township, I do not know the relationship between the people staying in the farmer and the white farmers. Most of the white farmers in Adelaide are soldiers. They use to come to our houses and assault us. ADV SANDI People in Adelaide, in the township, what were they thinking, what were their views about the white farmers? MR BOTA I cannot answer that question, Mr Chairperson. People, community of Adelaide, will be able to answer that question. ADV SANDI Thank you, Mr Bota. Thank you, Mr Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON It is clear that you are working with a mandate. If you do not have a mandate you cannot speak. I want to ask only one question to you. You spoke strongly when you were asked here by the person who was asking you questions on behalf of the Commission, you said that the Government must do something about the killers. You were not referring to us, you were referring to the Government. Yes, I am glad, because it seemed as if you were talking to us. You were saying we are the Government. We are not the, but I want to ask you one question concerning this matter. If the perpetrators, the police are forgiven, are given amnesty, do you see any danger concerning people's lives in Adelaide? I am not saying you must speak on behalf of the community of Adelaide, but I just want your view that if they are given amnesty, what do you think, after ten years, the impact of this will be? MR BOTA Mr Chairperson, if the enemy is forgiven you must know that you are forgiving an enemy. You do not know whether the enemy has forgiven you. When we were burying Mr May, the police gave us an order that there must be 200 people attending the funeral, but there were more than 1000 who attended the funeral. Those regulations were laid by the police. After ten years, after we have forgiven these people they will use other people to kill us, they will not come by themselves. CHAIRPERSON Thank you, Zimasile. You mentioned that the black police took part in killing people. What do you think the reason was that black people were killing more than white policemen? MR BOTA Mr Chairperson, the reason that we were killed by the police, black policemen is that they joined the police force because they were against certain members of the community. When they became police they would come and they would come with their uniform to the township. As I am a member of Adelaide Youth Congress I know that that is an enemy. A person who is not aware of this, for example, the killing of Andile Kiva, Andile Ndyebi and other people who were assaulted, we did not expect this to happen, because the police came with their uniforms. I left home on that Saturday, because I was aware that when the police came in their uniforms they were going to do such incidents. Many people were killed because they were not aware. That is why I am saying that the black policemen are the ones who killed us, because they joined the police force due to a grudge they have against the community. CHAIRPERSON Thank you, Zimasile. What you said here today makes us think although I am not saying I agree with all that you have said, but we are going to think deeply about what you have said as we are trying to reconcile this country. We have to keep peace in this country. After ten years we want to see results. We do not want to see that we have wasted our time. We will think deeply about the important things that we are doing in our job. We thank you. We also noted the requests you mentioned. Some of them are very difficult, because we are trying to reconcile and to forgive each other in this country. We thank you for speaking out as you did. You may sit down. Thank you.