hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1997-04-09 GRAHAMSTOWN 3 NELSON SAKUMZI DUMA https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55117&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/gtown/duma.htm REVD XUNDU: Nelson Sakumzi Duma, please stand. NELSON SAKUMZI DUMA (sworn states) REVD XUNDU Mr Chairman, the witness has been duly sworn in. CHAIRMAN Ntsiki Sandi. ADV SANDI Thank you Mr Chairman. Let us commence Mr Duma. Mr Duma you are a resident at Fort Beaufort. The incident which you are going to speak about is a Fort Beaufort incident, it took place at Fort Beaufort. Could you very briefly tell us about this incident? In Fort Beaufort in 1985, what was happening? What was the situation like there at the time, could you just give us an indication? MR DUMA At the time, there were many incidents of necklace murders. Chairperson, at the time necklace murders were rife and I was shot while my cousin who was being harassed by police and his girlfriend was pregnant and I was staying with his girlfriend who was pregnant, who was due to deliver at any time. ADV SANDI Who were shooting at the people and why? MR DUMA They were being shot at by the Municipal police. ADV SANDI What were the Magolotte? MR DUMA There were people who were arguing about Council positions, positions for Councillorship. ADV SANDI And on whose side were they? MR DUMA They were on the Mayor's side, Mr Nohashe who was the Mayor at Fort Beaufort. ADV SANDI Were they cooperating with the police? MR DUMA Yes, they were cooperating with the police. ADV SANDI Let us come to this day that you were talking about, you say you came out of the house? MR DUMA Yes, it was dusk. And at the time ... ADV SANDI Could you please slow down and speak a bit more audibly? Is there anyone you heard talking before you were shot? MR DUMA Yes. Somebody said shoot Boyce. There was stoning incidents there at the time as well. ADV SANDI Could you please slow down Mr Duma. Can you hear the way I am speaking, please speak at this pace. The person who was saying attack Boyce, who was that? MR DUMA That was where the Mgungwani's were armed. Boyce is a policeman, but he was a councillor at the time and he was told to attack me. ADV SANDI Did he strike you? MR DUMA Yes, he struck me under my right arm pit. ADV SANDI Did he say why he was shooting at you? MR DUMA There was stone throwing and incidents of toyi-toying at the time. ADV SANDI Did you know Boyce prior to the shooting? MR DUMA Yes, I knew him. ADV SANDI Did you people ever have an argument? MR DUMA No, but we never had an argument between the two of us. ADV SANDI What was the position between the organisation which you supported and the one which Boyce supported? MR DUMA I was a member of the ANC and he was on the side of APLA and on the side of the Mgungwani, who were the Municipal police. The Mgungwani, seemed to support APLA. They are now the SAPS. ADV SANDI Did you go to hospital after you were shot? MR DUMA Yes, the investigators gave me a letter which I was to take to the surgery of Dr Klaassen who treated me and said that there was nothing much wrong with me but ... ADV SANDI ; Do you still have a bullet in your body? MR DUMA Yes, I still do. ADV SANDI How many of them are there? MR DUMA It is only one. ADV SANDI Are you still receiving any treatment for the pellets that are in your body? MR DUMA No. ADV SANDI Is that all that you would like to say sir? MR DUMA Yes, that is all. ADV SANDI Is there any wish you would like to express or request you would like to make? MR DUMA I am here to tell the people what the situation was like at the time. I am just here to tell people what things were like at the time, although in Fort Beaufort I am regarded as a crazy person. I am currently still under treatment from the mental institution at Fort Beaufort. Yes, I still went to the hospital for treatment last Friday. ADV SANDI Thank you Mr Duma. MR DUMA Thank you. CHAIRMAN June Crichton? MS CRICHTON Thank you Mr Chairperson. You say that you, Mr Duma, you say that you know Boyce from when you were children together. Did you ever talk about joining up with the police? Did you discuss it ever and did he ever give you a reason as to why he did that? MR DUMA No, he never gave me any reason for doing that. He was part of the older group, he was amongst the older boys, he was not my peer. He never gave me any reasons. MS CRICHTON And the second question is who is the person Nomonde Motinise, the witness? MR DUMA Nomonde Motinise was my brother's girlfriend, who was sentenced to 21 years. I think she is teaching at Transkei now. MS CRICHTON But she was a witness to the incident? MR DUMA Yes, it happened before her because I was staying with her at the time, she was due to deliver any time. MS CRICHTON Thank you very much Mr Duma. CHAIRMAN Ntsiki Sandi? ADV SANDI The lady you refer to, Nomonde, you say that you were staying with her, taking care of her? MR DUMA Yes, because my brother was being harassed, the police were looking for him so he couldn't stay at home, and I had to stay with her, because she was pregnant and due to deliver at any time. And when I was shot, I was on my way to the toilet. She stayed close to where the people used to be set alight and the people were against them, and I was staying with her to ensure that she was not attacked. ADV SANDI When did you drop out of school? MR DUMA I dropped out of school in 1984, in standard nine. CHAIRMAN Sakumzi, thank you. You gave your testimony very fast, at least we heard what you had to say. We have taken note of what you have said here and perhaps our investigators will get in touch with you again and see if they can get a statement from Mr Motinise. For the moment, we thank you.