hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1997-04-07 GRAHAMSTOWN 1 NOVINTWEMBI GRACE GQAMFANE EC178/96 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55120&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/gtown/gqamfane.htm CHAIRPERSON We welcome you Mrs Grace Gqamfane. NOVINTWEMBI GRACE GQAMFANE (sworn states) CHAIRPERSON We will request the briefer to put on headphones because you will be led, asked questions by June Crichton. MS CRICHTON Good morning Mrs Gqamfane, can you hear me well? MS GQAMFANE Yes I can hear you. MS CRICHTON I will be asking you questions and if in the course of talking to me you see my light go on you will know it means that I want to ask you a question, is that clear? MS GQAMFANE Yes. MS CRICHTON Mrs Gqamfane you are here to tell us about your son, a student and a leader. You are one of our first witnesses from Alicedale and your son, as I understand it, was a 23 year old young man when he died, is that right? MS GQAMFANE Yes. MS CRICHTON A member of AYCO. MS GQAMFANE Yes. MS CRICHTON And a leader in that organisation. MS GQAMFANE Yes. MS CRICHTON There are two incidents that are mentioned in your statement. The first meeting that you tell us about was on the 24th of April. MS GQAMFANE Yes. MS CRICHTON Are you a mother who was aware of what your son was doing in AYCO? MS GQAMFANE Yes I was aware of a few things. MS CRICHTON So you must have been concerned about him? MS GQAMFANE Yes I was concerned. MS CRICHTON What was the actual situation at that time in Alicedale in the schools? There was a boycott on the go, tension was very high, is that correct? MS GQAMFANE Yes that is correct, not at school. MS CRICHTON What happened on the 24th of April, the first time that there was - I think if I read your statement it says that they came out from a political function and things were disrupted. Now on that occasion, that first time, the 24th that you mentioned, who disrupted that meeting, who disrupted it? MS GQAMFANE It was the police. MS CRICHTON Was it the Municipal police? MS GQAMFANE No it was the police from town, from the police office. MS CRICHTON And then would you tell us what happened on the 26th of March as you understand it? MS GQAMFANE It was a toyi-toyi in the township, all the children were toyi-toyiing. All the activists were toyi-toyiing. The police came as they were toyi-toyiing. They were all over the township singing, toyi-toyiing. The police came, they chased them away. Children ran away. They ran to the forests. When the police left they would come back and toyi-toyi again. And the police would come again and they would run away. On the third day I didn't see my son for three days. I couldn't find him. On the third day he came back, he did not come back home. At the time I was working in town. During the day I was at work. When I came back from work I would ask whether he had come back and ....(tape ends) During the day one of the women I worked with in town came to my work. She asked my boss saying that she wanted us to go home because the situation was tense in the township. This woman talked to my boss. It was about one during the day. We went home. This woman didn't say anything to me on our way home. When we arrived home she told me that she heard that my son was shot by a policeman by the name of Kulatyi in the other street. MS CRICHTON In your statement you mention that in fact he had tried to seek some kind of safety in somebody's house. MS GQAMFANE: Yes that is correct he tried to hide in a house. He went in that house and the mother in that house is in a wheelchair, my son went in this house and the police shot him. He ran away to hide himself in this house. They shot him in this house. If I am not mistaken they fired three shots and he passed away. MS CRICHTON Mrs Gqamfane this lady, the owner of the house, who was that in the wheelchair? MS GQAMFANE She was Mrs Bhelekani. MS CRICHTON Mrs Bhelekani, thank you. It must have been a terrible experience for her to have that happen in front of her, and for you to hear it in that way. MS CRICHTON After he had been shot I believe you were harassed quite a lot. Could you tell us about the harassment that you had then after the death and also at the funeral. MS GQAMFANE I was harassed by the police. They wanted me to bury him the same week. The comrades and the activists were in my house. I was called together with my husband. The police came, they told us we must bury him immediately. We told them we are not going to do that because we have to tell our family members, we have to inform them about this. They wanted him to be buried immediately but we refused. MS CRICHTON Why do you think it is that the police always wanted funerals to take place so quickly? MS GQAMFANE We did not know why they were doing this. The detectives also came. The police were all over the township, they were dispersing teargas. I don't know the reason why my son got shot because the police did not come to me to report about the incident. They didn't tell me what he had done. MS CRICHTON Were you present at the court case? MS GQAMFANE No I wasn't present, my husband was present. MS CRICHTON And did you receive a death certificate? MS GQAMFANE Yes. MS CRICHTON Was the name of the person who shot your son on the death certificate? MS GQAMFANE I am not sure whether his name is there, but I do have a copy of a death certificate with me. MS CRICHTON Mrs Gqamfane what are your expectations from the Commission, what do you hope that they will do for you? MS GQAMFANE My request concerning that - I am not satisfied about this because they killed my son for no reason. I cannot forgive them. I don't know even today the reason for this. I don't even know why they were harassing us, telling us to bury him immediately because the detectives also came, they demanded him to be buried immediately. MS CRICHTON Alright. You asked in your statement that you required compensation because your son had a dependent, a child, is that correct? MS GQAMFANE Yes. MS CRICHTON How old is that child now? MS GQAMFANE I think the child is eight years old. MS CRICHTON Is he at school? MS GQAMFANE Yes. MS CRICHTON Thank you very much Mrs Gqamfane, I am going to hand you back to the Chairperson now. CHAIRPERSON Tiny Maya. MS MAYA Thank you Mr Chairperson. In your statement you mentioned that there was a court case or an inquest, can you please tell us briefly what happened in that inquest? MS GQAMFANE Which one, the one in court? MS MAYA The court case concerning your son's death. MS GQAMFANE Are you asking whether there was a court case? MS MAYA Yes. The charge which was laid to the person who killed your son or was there any investigation done? MS GQAMFANE No. MS MAYA Did you go to any lawyers? MS GQAMFANE Yes, we hired a lawyer. MS MAYA What happened to the case? MS GQAMFANE I don't know what happened to the case. My husband, together with Mrs Bhelekani, and her husband were attending the court case. MS MAYA Do we have the name of the attorney? MS GQAMFANE Yes. MS MAYA What was his name? MS GQAMFANE It was Mr Sandi. MS MAYA Thank you. We can find all the details from the attorney. MS GQAMFANE Thank you. CHAIRPERSON Mr Sandi? MR SANDI Thank you Mr Chairperson. Mrs Gqamfane you said that Kulatyi Nzanze, the policeman who shot your son he fired many shots before he killed him? MS GQAMFANE Yes. MR SANDI This means that he was prepared, he wanted to kill him? MS GQAMFANE Yes. MR SANDI Do you see Kulatyi in the community? MS GQAMFANE Yes, but he is working in Port Elizabeth. He comes here during the weekends. MR SANDI Did you talk to him, speak to him after this incident? MS GQAMFANE No. MR SANDI Do you meet each other? MS GQAMFANE Yes, we do but we don't talk to each other. MR SANDI I would like to ask you a difficult question. As you are looking to Kulatyi do you see any repentance in him? MS GQAMFANE No I don't think so because even if he meets me he doesn't greet me in the street. MR SANDI Before the incident did you know Kulatyi in the community? MS GQAMFANE Yes. MR SANDI Briefly what was Kulatyi's reputation in the community? MS GQAMFANE I don't know because he was just in the community. He wouldn't come to my house and he was no friend of my child. MR SANDI Is he still a policeman? MS GQAMFANE Yes he's still a policeman. MR SANDI Thank you. Thank you Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON Thank you Mrs Gqamfane. We thank you for coming here and testifying, telling us about your son. It is clear that he was taking part in the community activities in Alicedale. We noted that the person who killed him is in Port Elizabeth. We would like to consult him to give us reasons why he killed your son. We also noted your request to the Commission. I can say that I am very touched because you requested money in order to support the child, your son's child. Many people think that they are coming here in front of the Commission people expect to be compensated, but the amount of money, which is R10 000 that you have put in your statement, as I am thinking that this R10 000 is not enough because it will not support your son's child. You have requested this amount and this shows that you just want your son's child to be educated. We will forward your request to the President of this country. We also noted that you asked the Commission to build a hospital to help people in Alicedale. This shows that you are a parent who does not think about herself only but who thinks about other people. We thank you for setting this example. We would like you to take your seat and we will take a 30 minute break and we will come back again. COMMISSION ADJOURNS