hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1997-04-09 GRAHAMSTOWN 3 NOMTANDAZO L. KALENI https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55123&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/gtown/kaleni.htm REVD XUNDU: Mr Chairman, I would like to swear the witnesses in, starting with you Nomtandazo Lydia Kaleni. NOMTANDAZO LYDIA KALENI (sworn states) TEMBILE ALFRED SWARTBOOI (sworn states) MANDLA BROWN KASO (sworn states) REVD XUNDU Thank you. Chairperson, they have been sworn in. Ma'am, I would like to start with you. Please tell us very briefly in your own words what happened? MS KALENI I had gone to work on that day and I used to come back late because we knock off duty at six o'clock. And only my two grandchildren used to be at home, no adult. When I got home, my children came to me and said Ma, Veza has been shot. They used to call him Veza, they said to me Veza had been shot and there and then I was so upset, I wanted to know who shot at my children. They said a casper, he had been shot from a casper. I wanted to know where is he now and they said we do not know if he is at the hospital where our aunt works. I worked at the Town Hospital and she worked at the Provincial Hospital. I walked around in a daze, hoping that a neighbour at least would come and tell me what had happened - nobody came and I did not know where to go, where to start, who to go to first. After my daughter had come off duty, before I gave her a chance I asked her if Velile was at hospital and she said what happened to Velile? And I asked her is he not at your hospital because he has been shot and she wanted to know who told you - I said well, these children told me. She did not know anything about him having been shot. Not even one of the people in the street or the location ... REVD XUNDU Just one moment please Ma'am. I am trying to reach a point of clarity. I hear what you are saying about the behaviour of the police which resulted in this, which hospital was he taken to? Which hospital was he taken to? MS KALENI He was taken to Alice by the people who took him. From Alice because he was in a critical condition, he was taken to Cecilia Makiwane Hospital in Mtansani and he passed away at Cecilia Makiwane on the 31st. REVD XUNDU Did the police ever come to you to tell you about something like this? MS KALENI No, not one policeman came to me and I never went to report anything to them. REVD XUNDU Where was this child shot, was he playing in the street or was he at school? MS KALENI They had come from a prayer service at the Apostolic Church, or at one of the churches in the location. It was on a public holiday and they were on their way home, when a casper passed them, they were close to home. REVD XUNDU Was there a struggle in which they were involved at the time? MS KALENI It was the struggle of the youth that all the youth were involved in at the time. REVD XUNDU Objecting to their gutter education? MS KALENI Yes. REVD XUNDU With regards to his funeral, were there any conditions laid down? MS KALENI On the day of the vigil, I was phoned and asked when I was going to bury the child. The Investigator phoned me and wanted to know when I was going to bury the child. REVD XUNDU Do you know who the Investigator was? MS KALENI I have forgotten his name. He left. REVD XUNDU When did you bury him? MS KALENI We buried him on the Tuesday according to what they wanted us to do. I wanted to bury him the Saturday and they refused for us to bury him the Saturday. REVD XUNDU Were there any certificates which you obtained with regards to the cause of his death? What did his death certificate state his cause of death to be? MS KALENI His death certificate stated that he had been shot in his head. REVD XUNDU Did you ever consult an Attorney in regard to charging anyone or anyone investigating the matter? MS KALENI No. After the child passed away, I went to the hospital in Alice and I was never referred to where the child passed away. REVD XUNDU And now that you are here before the Commission, what is your wish or request from this Commission? What would you like this Commission to do for you? MS KALENI I have since left the matter in God's hands. God will answer my prayers, and I maintain the same today. I say that God will comfort me in regard to my child. I have nothing more to say. REVD XUNDU Thank you Madam. We know that you are still heartbroken about this, but it seems as though you have told your story completely. We are now going to go on to Tembile Alfred Swartbooi. Mr Swartbooi, you are here to tell us about yourself, you were severely ill-treated. It is clear that in Fort Beaufort and in other places, the police were lawless, they are doing anything, everything to people. We notice that this is the same in your story, but I would like you to tell us in your own words what happened to you. MR SWARTBOOI I was coming from work, I was working in the Municipality. It was around half past five, I was going home. They called me while I was in the yard. It was late at that time. They assaulted me. REVD XUNDU Who were calling you? Who called you from the yard? MR SWARTBOOI The police called me. REVD XUNDU They just beat you? MR SWARTBOOI Yes, they beat me. REVD XUNDU This man is telling us a story, his painful story. He is not in a cinema, please behave yourselves. It is not a laughing matter, you are making him a victim although he was a victim before. They kicked you and you were injured? MR SWARTBOOI Yes, I was injured. REVD XUNDU You then went to the hospital? MR SWARTBOOI Yes. REVD XUNDU In which hospital? MR SWARTBOOI I went to Adelaide Hospital, they then transferred me to East London. Even today I am getting treatment from East London. REVD XUNDU You got injured that day? MR SWARTBOOI Yes, I got injured that day - before I was well. REVD XUNDU Was there a case opened? MR SWARTBOOI No, there was no case. REVD XUNDU Did you get any compensation? MR SWARTBOOI No, I did not get any. REVD XUNDU Do you get a pension? MR SWARTBOOI I do get a pension, a grant. REVD XUNDU By coming here to the Commission sir, what would you like the Commission to do for you? MR SWARTBOOI ; I would like the Commission to assist me because I am like an old man today, I am still very young. REVD XUNDU Do you have a wife? MR SWARTBOOI No, I don't have a wife. REVD XUNDU Do you have children? MR SWARTBOOI Yes, I do. REVD XUNDU How many? MR SWARTBOOI I have two children. REVD XUNDU In which standards are they? MR SWARTBOOI They are doing standard 7. REVD XUNDU You would also like the Commission to assist you to support your children? MR SWARTBOOI Yes, I would like the Commission to do that for me. REVD XUNDU Thank you sir. Thank you. Let us now come to you Mandla. Mandla, you were also a victim of police violence and maybe anyone listening to this history of police violence, will realise that never again should the police abuse their position of power of authority. Could you please just tell us very briefly about your assault by the police and if you were a member of an organisation, tell us which organisation you were a member of and what your role was? MR KASO I was at home and I heard shots in the street behind us. I was struck by a bullet in my eye. I was then taken by car to Alice. At Alice I was told that this required specialist treatment and I was taken to East London and for a whole week this object was in my eye. REVD XUNDU Did you ever lay a charge against the police who shot you? MR KASO This object was removed after a week, Friday, after a week and then these Doctors asked me if I could see, I said no. My eye was removed and I had an artificial eye inserted. REVD XUNDU Did anyone take a statement from you or did anyone - did you go to Attorneys to consult? MR KASO I went to the police and Nkenke at the Investigative Unit in Fort Beaufort said to me that they would get back to me. They took my statement, Nkenke took my statement and Nkenke and Makalima took my statement. Makalima is the one that wrote down my statement. Nkenke and them would keep fetching me from my house. REVD XUNDU And thereafter it just went quiet, you never heard from them again? MR KASO No, I never heard from them again and I never received any kind of compensation. I received a letter saying that I should go to the Magistrate's court and from the Magistrate's court I was to go to the Doctor to try and get a pension. I then took this paper to the Doctor, the Doctor refused. REVD XUNDU Who was this Doctor? Perhaps our investigators could trace him? Perhaps you could give the name to our investigators later. Did you ever receive a grant since then? MR KASO No, I never. REVD XUNDU Have you got a wife? MR KASO Yes. REVD XUNDU Have you got children? MR KASO Yes. REVD XUNDU How many children do you have? MR KASO Three. REVD XUNDU How many wives? There are three children, how many wives? MR KASO One wife. REVD XUNDU How do you support your children? MR KASO I do odd jobs. REVD XUNDU Does your wife work? MR KASO Yes. REVD XUNDU How would you like the Commission to be of assistance? MR KASO I would like the Commission to assist me in whatever way it can because I am basically useless now. I do not receive any pension. REVD XUNDU What standards are your children? MR KASO One is in standard 3, the one is standard 2 and the one is in sub B, the little one. REVD XUNDU So we will investigate the matter and see if we can make any recommendation to the President of the country. Thank you very much. Chairperson, I hand them back to you. CHAIRPERSON Mrs Crichton? MS CRICHTON Mr Kaso, can you hear me? Can you hear me? MR KASO Yes. MS CRICHTON It just took you a couple of moments to tell your story, but there is a lifetime of results as a result of your story. I only have one simple question for you. I want to ask you who Priscilla Kaso is? MR KASO She is my sister. MS CRICHTON Did she witness the event? MR KASO Yes, she did. MS CRICHTON Thank you, that is all I wanted from you. Thank you Mr Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON Ntsiki Sandi? ADV SANDI Thank you Mr Chairman. I observe in your statements all three of you, refer to soldiers. Was there ever a time where soldiers entered Fort Beaufort? Mr Kaso, were you assaulted by soldiers that day? MR KASO I was shot from a casper. ADV SANDI Were this the soldiers or the police? MR KASO They were police. ADV SANDI Were there ever any soldiers in Fort Beaufort when this turbulence was taking place? MR KASO Yes, there were, but I did not see any soldiers that day, I saw this casper with police. ADV SANDI What were the soldiers doing when they were there? MR KASO They would merely assault people with sjamboks and so forth. ADV SANDI Was there a group or groups who have already been mentioned by the previous witnesses who were corroborating with the soldiers? MR KASO Yes, there were. ADV SANDI Who were they? MR KASO They used to corroborate with the Amangundwana and the soldiers and also with the - they would all corroborate with the soldiers and the Zulu's. ADV SANDI Were you ever with people who were assaulted by the soldiers there or did you see that? MR KASO Yes, I did. ADV SANDI What would the soldiers say to them when they assaulted them? MR KASO They wouldn't ask them any questions, they would merely assault them, assault people who were on their way somewhere. CHAIRPERSON Tiny Maya? MS MAYA Thank you Chairperson. Mr Swartbooi, you said that these people - now I am going to ask you whether they were soldiers or police? MR SWARTBOOI They were police. MS MAYA And you say they were in a casper? MR SWARTBOOI Yes. MS MAYA You say they called you while you were in your yard at home? Did they call you because they knew you or because they were just calling people at random? MR SWARTBOOI They didn't know me. MS MAYA Were you politically active? MR SWARTBOOI Yes, I was involved in the ANC. MS MAYA Did you hold any position within the ANC? MR SWARTBOOI No. MS MAYA You say at the hospital a cross was put at your feet before you were transferred to East London? MR SWARTBOOI No, but I still have documents here. MS MAYA What happened to you when you got to East London? MR SWARTBOOI I was X-rayed. And I was admitted for several months, for nine months. MS MAYA What happened to you there? MR SWARTBOOI They assaulted me with firearms and kicked me with boots. MS MAYA Did anything happen, was there a case or anything like that? MR SWARTBOOI ; No. CHAIRPERSON Mr Swartbooi, did anyone see this incident take place? MR SWARTBOOI Yes. CHAIRPERSON Who? MR SWARTBOOI My aunt. CHAIRPERSON What is her name? MR SWARTBOOI She is Somikazi. CHAIRPERSON And these soldiers just called you and assaulted you, didn't they say anything while they were assaulting you? MR SWARTBOOI No, they merely assaulted me. CHAIRPERSON Didn't they tell you why they were assaulting you? MR SWARTBOOI No. I didn't think of running away because they would have shot me if I ran away, I just went to them. CHAIRPERSON Is that a common occurrence for them to just call somebody there and assault the person? MR SWARTBOOI Yes, it used to happen quite often. CHAIRPERSON We thank the three of you for the testimony which you have come to give here. We will send our Investigative Team to you in Fort Beaufort to come and take more details as they are going to go and investigate the matter so that we can submit a report to our President. We will now take a recess until two o'clock. COMMISSION ADJOURNS UNTIL TWO O'CLOCK .