hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1997-04-09 GRAHAMSTOWN 3 NOSIPHO A. MDYOGOLO https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55135&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/gtown/mdyogolo.htm COMMISSION COMMENCES WITH PRAYERS. CHAIRMAN On behalf of all of us I wish to convey our deep sense of gratitude for the minister for leading the devotions for us this morning. It was very brief, but indeed very touching and very deep. We are going to proceed in the same fashion as in the past two days in this our last day here in Grahamstown. We will ask that anyone who cannot understand Xhosa move to our administrative desk and obtain a set of headphones. Those who do understand Xhosa, we will appeal to you to please make these sets available to those who need them because yesterday there was a shortage of these headsets. We will use Xhosa for our proceedings mainly except for those witnesses who prefer to testify in English and we request those people who have limited or no understanding of Xhosa to please get the earphones. We request again that those be left on your seats when you leave after the end of the proceedings or when you decide to leave the hall. Tiny Maya will report to us on the order for today. MS MAYA Thank you Chairperson. Honourable Chairperson, on this our third and final morning here in Grahamstown, the 9th day of April 1997 I would like to place before you the list of people who have applied to appear before this Human Rights Violations Committee of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. I am going to place it in the order in which they will appear before you today. Today we have 28 witnesses who will appear before this Committee, who will be testifying about two regions, Grahamstown and Fort Beaufort. Firstly I will read the name of the witness, then the name of the victim who was violated, the violation, the year and the area in which the violation took place. Firstly Nosipho Angelina Mdyogolo will testify about Mtandazeli Patrick Mdyogolo who was murdered in Grahamstown in 1985. Nonzame Elizabeth Koliti will testify about the murder of Nontle Koliti in Grahamstown in 1986. Ntombomzi Makafe will speak about an attempted murder on herself in Grahamstown in 1986. Mava Zolele Rwexu will speak about severe ill-treatment on herself, the murder of Nonose Hoboshe, Yunguma Priscilla Hoboshe and Vuyiswwa Hoboshe in 1986 here in Grahamstown. Nomakhwezi Georgina Siko will testify about Nontozake Siko's murder in 1985 here in Grahamstown. Bulelwa Florence Xhanga will speak about the murder of Siphiwo Xhanga in Grahamstown in 1985. Nonzima Edna Bikishi will speak about the murder of Phindile Lhelhe Mbenge in Grahamstown in 1986. Patricia Fundiswa Sukula will speak about severe ill-treatment, her severe ill-treatment and the murder of Nontyatyambo Medeline Sandi in Grahamstown in 1986. Tenjiwe Quenette Madinda will speak about her severe ill-treatment and arson in 1986 here in Grahamstown. Timoti Mbuyiselo Pota Mlonyeni will speak about his severe ill-treatment and arson in Grahamstown in 1986. Koloman James Mantile will speak about the murders of Jane Msuthakazi Matyani and Johnson Pakamile Mantile in Grahamstown in 1987. Zinakile Eric Peter will speak about Topsy Peter's murder in Grahamstown in 1987. Misile De Villiers Nondzube will speak about his severe ill-treatment and arson in Grahamstown in 1987. All the following witnesses will be from Fort Beaufort and because they are all from the same place, I will not mention the name of the place. Nelson Sakumzi Duma will speak about an attempted murder on himself in 1985. Nowatase Regina Kobese will speak about the murder of Notiti Steven Kobese in 1984. Nozipho Eunice Siyona will speak about the murder of Phindile Siyona in 1985. Nokhaya Lili Madakane will speak about the murder of Thozamile Swartbooi Madakana in 1985. Nomatemba Agnes Ndingane will speak about the murder of Selby Zanemali Ndingane who was murdered in 1985. Nosisi Violet Payi will speak about the murder of Bukelwa Notargane Payi in 1985. Zanyiwe Sylvia Kama will speak about the murder of Lulama Kama in 1985 and also Xolani Kama. There was an attempted murder on the life of Zolani. Nomtandazo Lydia Kaleniwill speak about the murder of Velile Lennox Kaleni in 1986. Tembile Alfred Swartboom will speak about his severe ill-treatment in 1985. Mandla Kaso will speak about his severe ill-treatment in 1985. Buyiswa Margaret Cekisani will speak about her torture in 1986. Tembeka Nocawe Maki will speak about her torture in 1989. Nkosiyabo David Ngidla will speak an attempted murder. Kivi William Tyiwa will speak about an attempted murder on himself. Nokwaka Sylvia Nkwalase will speak about the murder of Luvyo Loti Nkwalase who was murdered in 1993. Millicent Shumikazi Swartbooi will speak about the murder of Zwelenkomo Alfred Swartbooi who was murdered in 1993. Enoch Mali will speak about an attempted murder on his life in 1992. Nomsaga Anet Danster will speak about the murder in 1986 of Neeba Danster. Thank you very much Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON We thank you Ms Maya. We have a long list of people who will be appearing before the Commission today and we will appeal to everyone for your cooperation so that we can reach the end of our list in time and we appeal to you that you maintain discipline and order so that we can complete our hearings in time. We normally have a set time aside in our hearings where we observe a moment of silence to pay respect for the deceased by announcing their names. We will now ask that everyone in the house rise, so that we can remember all those who have passed on. We remember Mtandazeli Patrick mdyogolo, Nontle Koliti, Nonose Hoboshe, Yunguma Priscilla Hoboshe, Vuyiswa Hoboshe, Siphiwo Xhanga, Phindile Lhelhe Mbenge, Nontyatyambo Medeline Sandi, Jane Msuthukazi Matyani, Johnson Pakamile Mantile, Topsy Peter, and also Notiti Steven Kobese, Phindile Siyona, Thozamile Swartbooi Madakana, Selby Zanemali Ndingane. And also Bukelwa Notargane Payi, Lulama Kama, Velile Lennox Kaleni, and also Luvuyo Loti Nkwalase, Zwelenkomo Alfred Swartbooi as well as Neeba Danster. May their souls and the souls of all the faithfully departed through the mercy of God, rest in peace, amen. We don't normally introduce people who announce people when we have our sittings, but we would like to welcome Reverend Lupata who is training priests of the Anglican Church here in Grahamstown, we would also like to welcome Cyril Hartland who is a priest in Fort Beaufort and he is also the Mayor of Fort Beaufort. We welcome you. We are going to call up the first people, we will call up Nosipho Angelina Mdyogolo, Nonzame Elizabeth Koliti. We ask that the two of them step forward. REVD XUNDU Thank you Chairperson. I would like to swear the witnesses in, starting with Nosipho Angelina Mdyogolo. NOSIPHO ANGELINA MDYOGOLO (sworn states) REVD XUNDU Thank you very much. NONZAME ELIZABETH KOLITI (sworn states) REVD XUNDU Thank you very much. Chairman, the witnesses have been duly sworn in. CHAIRPERSON Thank you very much you may be seated. We would like to welcome you here and we are going to ask Mr Sandi to direct questions at you on behalf of the Commission. ADV SANDI Thank you very much Chairman. I would like us to begin with Miss Mdyogolo. Miss Mdyogolo you are going to testify about the murder of Mtandazeli Patrick Mdyogolo who is your brother, is that correct? MS MDYOGOLO Yes, that is correct. ADV SANDI Because we have all the information in statement form before us, we would like you to just sketch very briefly for us what happened to this boy in 1985. MS MDYOGOLO Firstly I would like to rectify the year, there is a mistake. It did not happen in 1985, it happened in 1984. ADV SANDI Thank you very much, we have noted that. MS MDYOGOLO What happened too Mtandazeli is that it was a school day, although I cannot remember which day it was, he was on his way to school. He had gone to school and he came back from school that afternoon, had something to eat and went back for afternoon studies and at approximately 5 pm he had not come back yet, because normally they return back to school at 2 pm. We were worried as to why he had not returned yet and we heard a toyi-toyi march past our house, move up our street. We were then fairly certain that he was part of that toyi-toyi because the children back then would join the toyi-toyi as soon as they heard one. At approximately 6 pm the Mdisa family came to our home to tell us that Mtandazeli had fallen at their house and they had come to fetch us. We got into Mr Maneli's car and also the Mdisa family car and we went there. When we got there we found him laying on the ground and they told us that he came there running and he told them that he had been struck behind his ear and that he had a headache. They asked him what they could do for him and he asked for headache tablets and said he would like to sleep. They offered him a bed and he declined that and he said he wanted to lie flat on the ground. They gave him these headache tablets. After a while - they kept checking on him and they found that he was laying very still and after a while they'd check on him every few minutes and at some stage they found a greyish fluid flowing out of his nose and they noticed that there was some hair missing from behind his ear. And they then realised that they should come and fetch us because we are related in some way and we found him laying there like that. This Mr Maneli that was with the Mdisa family assisted us because he also had a car and he took us to Settlers Hospital. Because those were turbulent times - the 80's were turbulent times and there were so many toyi-toyi's, police presence and so forth, it was not easy for us to hear exactly what happened. We just had to hear it through the grapevine because when we got to the Hospital, we met up with a Doctor White who told us, basically confirmed that he was deceased and then after a few days students came to sympathise with us after having heard that he was dead. And we appealed to these students that if anyone of them knew what happened, they should please tell us. His one friend Whitey told us what happened and how it had happened. Whitey's version of events was that they were toyi-toying up M-Street and when they got near the Nqoline Funeral Parlour the police came and dispersed them with rubber bullets and tear gas and what Whitey noticed was that while the police were standing there, Nombenqana and the Boers got out of the police vehicles and he directed, Nombenqana directed something at them and fired. This thing zoomed past Whitey and struck the person in front of him, who was Mtandazeli and it struck the back of his ear. He fell and Whitey continued running. Mtandazeli got up and ran into the Mdisa house where he fell. ADV SANDI Where is Whitey currently? MS MDYOGOLO Because those were such turbulent times and the ANC and AZAPO were in conflict and he belonged to AZAPO, he was a victim being sought by the ANC and he had to flee his home, but his mother took him to his aunt in Cape Town. But he had left here already having made a statement. ADV SANDI When he left, did he - had he said who had shot at him? MS MDYOGOLO We had not, we were not able to ask too many questions back then because of the way it was. ADV SANDI Is that Mtandazeli's mother? MS MDYOGOLO Yes. ADV SANDI Who did you say the Attorney was? MS MDYOGOLO We went to Mr Sandi. ADV SANDI Was it not Mr Mpati? MS MDYOGOLO They were in partnership Mr Mpati and Mr Sandi. ADV SANDI What happened in court? MS MDYOGOLO After he had been taken to the Doctor, he was taken in for an operation. Thereafter he was taken for the post-mortem to be conducted and we received notices informing us that an inquest was going to be held and that we should be at court at a certain date. We went to court and there were policemen present there who were testifying before Mr Koti, Nombenqana, saying that they did not do that because they were not trained to shoot, but at the time when Mr Koti was to take the witness stand he said that he had been trained in the use of that firearm and he could shoot, but because the witness Whitey was not present at court we don't know what became of the matter, that was the last we heard of it. ADV SANDI And if your presence here today, is there any wish you would like to express? MS MDYOGOLO Our wish as a family is that this matter be reopened because what happened back then was confusing to us as a family because of the way the police handled us, they would come in the morning at 1 am and harass us and attack us with tear gas, so we did not know exactly what was happening. We merely buried him because - for the sake of the formality so we would like this matter to be reopened and be given a chance. If we could be present that we could bury Mtandazeli in the dignified manner, befitting him. ADV SANDI In your testimony you said that you would like Mtandazeli's mother to receive counselling. Could you elaborate on that? MS MDYOGOLO Yes, I requested counselling because after this happened, we found that she was not herself any more. There are times when she would just - all this would just come back to her and we felt that perhaps counselling could help. ADV SANDI Is - are you referring to the same way she behaved a few minutes ago? MS MDYOGOLO Yes, as soon as she recalls what happened, she becomes hysterical and sometimes we have to call in other families as well to try and console her. ADV SANDI Thank you very much Ms Mdyogolo. We would now like to move to Ms Koliti. Ms Koliti, you are here to tell us about Nontle Koliti. Is Nontle your grandchild or your child? MS KOLITI She was my child. ADV SANDI How old was she at the time? MS KOLITI Nontle was 13 years old at the time. ADV SANDI She was 13 years old? MS KOLITI Yes, she was 13 years old. ADV SANDI She was shot in 1986, is that correct? MS KOLITI Yes, that is correct. ADV SANDI Please tell us Ms Koliti what happened on this particular day. MS KOLITI On this day I was at work. Someone came to fetch me from work, telling me that Nontle was not well. I was surprised because when I left home, she was well. My boss let me go. We went home. When I arrived at home, there were many people at my house. I heard that Nontle was shot and she passed away. ADV SANDI Who shot Nontle? MS KOLITI It was said that it was Mpukumpuku who shot her. ADV SANDI Is Mpukumpuku Khadi who was a policemen? MS KOLITI Yes. ADV SANDI Who was with Mpukumpuku at the time? MS KOLITI When Mpukumpuku shot my daughter, the witnesses said that he was together with Nombenqana. ADV SANDI Is Nombenqana Mr Koti? MS KOLITI Yes, he Mr Koti. ADV SANDI You said that you consulted at Attorney and this case proceeded to court. What happened in court? MS KOLITI This case was conducted in court, but I don't remember for how long. But we were told once that Mpukumpuku had passed away. ADV SANDI Was it the end of the case then? MS KOLITI Yes, it was the end of the case. ADV SANDI Do you have a request to the Commission today so that the Commission would recommend your request to the President? Did you receive any money or were you compensated by the Government? MS KOLITI Yes, I did receive an amount of money from an Attorney. ADV SANDI What was this money for? Was it for burial expenses? MS KOLITI Yes, it was for burial expenses. ADV SANDI Do you have something else to add Ms Koliti, concerning this matter? Is that all you wanted to say? MS KOLITI Yes, that is all. ADV SANDI Thank you Ms Koliti, I will hand over to the Chairperson, thank you. CHAIRPERSON Ms Koliti, your testimony you just presented to this Commission today, you said that Nontle Koliti was shot by Mpukumpuku? MS KOLITI Yes, sir. CHAIRPERSON You also said that Khadi was present when Nontle was shot? MS KOLITI The witnesses said that Khadi was also present. CHAIRPERSON Who are these witnesses, do you know their names? MS KOLITI It was Nomthumzi. CHAIRPERSON Do you know her surname? MR KOLITI I've forgotten Nomthumzi's surname. CHAIRPERSON We will get back to you so that you can give us the surname when you've remembered it. What did these witnesses say? Did they say that Khadi took part in this process? Did he also shoot your daughter? MS KOLITI The witnesses said that these children were playing near the toilet that morning, it was a quiet morning. Mpukumpuku came and he stopped the car in K-Street, he went in one yard in K-Street, the back of this yard is facing the K-Street because we were staying in two streets. He then went next to the toilet where the children were playing. The witness said that she heard a gunshot and Mpukumpuku had already killed them. CHAIRPERSON When you are speaking of Mpukumpuku, is it the same as Khadi? MS KOLITI Yes. CHAIRPERSON I wanted to ask about Nombenqana Koti. Did he take part in shooting these people? MS KOLITI No, he did not take part because the witnesses said that Nombenqana was in the police van. CHAIRPERSON On behalf of the Commission, I would like to thank both of you for coming here today and to tell us your story. Your story is a usual story to this Commission because the police used to shoot people at random. I don't want to say a lot for now, but I would like to inform you that Nombenqana's lawyers have requested a chance to come here so that they can answer some of the things that have been raised in these statements. And we will get a chance to ask them questions so that we can find the truth. We will request you now to go back to your seats so that they can come up to the stage. Thank you.