hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1997-04-09 GRAHAMSTOWN 3 NOZIPHO EUNICE SIYONA https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55149&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/gtown/siyona.htm CHAIRMAN: We will now call Nozipho Eunice Siyona. REVD XUNDU Mr Chairman, with your permission I would like to swear the witness in. NOZIPHO EUNICE SIYONA (sworn states) REVD XUNDU Thank you very much. Chairperson, the witness has been sworn in. CHAIRMAN I thank you. June Crichton. MS CRICHTON Thank you Mr Chairperson. Could we have the earphones please? Mrs Siyona, can you hear me? MS SIYONA I can hear you. MS CRICHTON You are here to tell us about Phindile Siyona who was an ANC activist who was shot by the police on the 24th of March 1986, are those facts correct? MS SIYONA I am going to talk about someone who was shot in 1992. About someone and his mother, someone by the name of Kama who was also shot. MS CRICHTON Could you just wait for one moment Mrs Siyona. Is Phindile not a relative of yours at all? MS SIYONA That is my child. CHAIRMAN Mrs Siyona, Lulama Kama was also killed on the same day, is that correct? MS SIYONA Yes, they were killed on the same day. CHAIRMAN And what about Nokhaya Lili Madakane? MS SIYONA That is, his name is Xolani Kama. CHAIRMAN Is the matter of Thozamile Swartbooi Madakana something different? Very well, we are going to ask Zanyiwe Sylvia Kama to come forward. ZANYIWE SYLVIA KAMA (sworn states) CHAIRMAN June Crichton will put questions to Mrs Siyona, Tiny Maya will put questions to Zanyiwe Kama. MS CRICHTON Mrs Siyona, we start again then. Would you then in your own words, like to tell us what happened? MS SIYONA Yes, I would. In 1992, the 24th of the month, I was at home and I heard somebody call me. I heard a shot while I was at home. After a few minutes I heard myself being called. Someone shouted Nowelele, Nowelele, Phindile has been shot. We rushed out of the door towards the street and we saw the Stability Unit there and they chased us away as if they were chasing away rejects. And there were two of these children, one was at the bottom and one was at the top, I could see my one laying on his face and I could see the other one, the Kama boy. The Reverend took me and said that we should go. A policeman stood there for a long time and then they took me back home with - and there were people that sat with me at home and I was informed that he had been taken to hospital. Reverend Kotze came and said that the child passed away while he was laying there. I remained there and I was told that they were going to get an ANC Doctor to conduct a post-mortem and find out what the cause of his death was. We were told that he was going to be taken to Adelaide for this to be done. Then eventually we were told we could go and fetch the child and find a mortuary. I then found a mortuary and told them that he was going to be taken to the Newtown mortuary. I then went home and Mdanye said that the police were calling him and wanting to know how many people were going to attend the funeral. I asked God to give me the strength that when the police came to me to enquire how many people were going to attend the funeral, that I was going to tell them how many people there were because I was unable to get close to my child when he was shot. Eventually I got my child's corps and I kept wondering how I was going to bury this child, because this all happened so unexpectedly and I did not have any money. The organisation said no, we will help you. Then the Red Cross organisation came and gave me R400-00 and the organisation collected donations for me from the residents in town and brought me this money which had been collected. We then buried this child and they were standing in the tarred road and I was given a burial site at the bottom of Dube. We conducted the funeral without any incident. And then there was this Kama boy, he was still alive and then Kama was released from police guard at the hospital and we were told that a trial was going to be conducted. The more the trial continued, the more my child's name was, my child was implicated. And I thought I am not going to attend the trial any more, I remained at home. Sandi came there when the trial was being finalised on that day, I had not attended court and the Attorney Sandi came to me and he said this Kama child seems to have an Attorney and it has been found that two people cannot conduct a riot. A group does that. So I said to Sandi I don't have any money, God will see what to do. I am not going to do this up and down of going to court. The person who was charged, was acquitted. I've got something else, before my child was shot on that Thursday, a guy by the name of Teddy came with the Stability Unit in the casper. I was at my place, Seslunqa was in the lounge and I heard that it was White policemen and they asked where the mother of this family is and she said that the family was not there. This White policeman said that he was coming to make peace with the family and he was told that the family was not there and they left in the casper. Long afterwards Nkenke came and wanted to know if Phindile Siyona had been shot, so I said yes and he said that the case is continuing. And I said how many times is this case going to go on because are you people separating this and he said to me, you are wanted tomorrow. I then went, accompanied by some family members to the court and these White policemen came in. Many of them had a briefcase and we were told that they were talking about Phindile Siyona and the case was postponed when the Doctors in Adelaide was phoned and he told them that he was busy and I think two weeks later, the matter was heard again and I was told that it was going to be finalised. When we went there, the Doctor took the stand and at Attorney by the name of Tabata was representing us. I think the Doctor must have sent an assistant or something, because I didn't see him. What satisfied me at that case, was when the Doctor said that the child had died because he had been shot at close range and through his heart. If he had been shot from a distance, he would probably have survived. We left and then we were told that the deceased was found guilty of having stoned a casper and that he had a petrol bomb that he had thrown as well. And then I went out with the Attorney and said I don't believe what they are saying, even if my child had thrown this casper with a petrol bomb or whatever, they could just have injured him and he would still have been alive. And he suggested that I appeal against the matter, I said I don't have any money and I was told to bring the person that was with the deceased. I then got - hired a car and went to King William's Town and we were told that Mponyololo must tell us what happened and Mponyololo said that he and the deceased were playing ball in the street. And he said that while they were playing ball, he went to the toilet, heard shots and when he came out, he saw the deceased laying there and the police was shooting at him as well. Mponyololo said when he came to after having been shot at, he was in hospital. Apparently they had been playing ball outside this house where they were. That Attorney said to me that Mponyololo says that it is possible that the deceased threw stones at that casper. It is possible that the deceased threw stones at that casper, but Mponyololo did not see him and in these way these White policemen were acquitted. There were three of them. MS CRICHTON Ms Siyona, I thank you for that story that has made it clear to us now but there are some questions that I need to ask you. First of all, how old was Phindile? MS SIYONA He was 16 years old. MS CRICHTON And the friend that he was with, that was playing ball with him? MS SIYONA I don't know, his parents will know, I know how old my child was. MS CRICHTON All right, was he a member of one of the school organisations? The political organisations? MS SIYONA Are you referring to Phindile Siyona? MS CRICHTON Yes, yes I am just referring to Phindile at this stage? MS SIYONA Yes, he was. MS CRICHTON Then when the post-mortem was done, it says in your statement that the post-mortem was conducted without the family being present and the ANC was not happy about that. Did you actually get a paper from them on the results of the post-mortem from the Government, from the police? Did they give you a statement that was totally different to the one that the ANC gave you? MS SIYONA No, but we were surprised to hear that the post-mortem had been conducted and we had to come and fetch his corpse, but the ANC Doctor said that his heart had been ripped, had been shattered by the bullet. MS CRICHTON The funeral went off without any incident, after you had asked for strength from God and you had received that strength to say how many you were going to have at that funeral, is that correct? MS SIYONA Yes, the funeral went off without incident. MS CRICHTON And at this point you are still concerned that the deceased was said to be guilty of throwing stones? MS SIYONA No, I was not even expecting that, so it didn't faze me much. MS CRICHTON ; But in your statement I see that you are actually saying that you want the Truth Commission to investigate your son's death again, is that still your request? MS SIYONA When I submitted my statement, I said that this whole thing is bringing back, reopening old wounds, and that is the reason why I avoided attending the court hearings. All I thank God for is that I could take my child and bury him, others did not even see their children, they just heard that their children were dead or received the bones. I was just grateful for the opportunity to take my child, identify him and bury him. MS CRICHTON Is your health now seriously affected by this, how are you Mrs Siyona? MS SIYONA Yes, thereafter I went to the Doctor and I was diagnosed as having high blood pressure and I am still under medication. MS CRICHTON Have you any particular request to the Commission, other than what you told us already? MS SIYONA I don't see what I can ask for except to say that the Truth Commission can see in which way it can assist me. MS CRICHTON Have you completed your testimony, is there anything further that you want to add to what you said already? MS SIYONA There is nothing more I would like to add. MS CRICHTON Thank you very much Mrs Siyona, I will hand you back to the Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON Mrs Siyona, who was the Doctor in Adelaide, you said he was a Doctor from Adelaide. Who was he? MS CRICHTON I don't know, I saw him in court wearing a Doctor's coat. I don't know if he is still around, but I don't think that his name will not be reflected in Tabata's books because he was present there. CHAIRMAN Who were the people who came to ask you for forgiveness? MS SIYONA These were the White policemen I just heard them say that they were looking for the family. Teddy was with the policemen. CHAIRMAN Do you know what Teddy's surname is? MS SIYONA No, I only know him as Teddy. CHAIRMAN Thank you Mrs Siyona, we will now go to Mrs Kama. MS MAYA Thank you Mr Chairperson. Mrs Kama are you Zanyiwe Sylvia Kama? MS KAMA Yes. MS MAYA According to the statement in front of us, you are going to talk about two incidents? MS KAMA Yes. MS MAYA You are going to talk about Lulama Kama who was 13 years and Xolani Kama? MS KAMA Yes, that is correct. MS MAYA Lulama was shot? MS KAMA Yes. MS MAYA Xolani was shot in the back, he was injured, is that correct? MS KAMA Yes. MS MAYA These incidents happened in different years. When was Lulama shot dead? MS KAMA Lulama Kama was shot in 1985. She was the first victim in Fort Beaufort to be shot. She was shot by Amanqundwani. MS MAYA Is he Lulama? MS KAMA Yes, he is Lulama. MS MAYA Did this happen on the 2nd of February 1985? MS KAMA Yes. MS MAYA Please tell us what was happening at Fort Beaufort at this time? MS KAMA In 1985 we were not aware of riots at that time. Lulama Kama did not do anything. There was a meeting of the Councillors at Nyibiba with the residents. There was conflict in that meeting between the Councillors and the residents. On the following week the children were toyi-toying in the streets. Lulama was passing by, he was coming from the yard. My mother sent him to the shop to buy sugar. Because he was young, we did not expect anything to happen to him. He then went to the shop. He joined the people who were singing in the streets. When he was coming back from the shop, there were two of them. His friend was Patani Kahlani. Lulama was coming back home, his friend was going to another township. Lulama met the Councillors, the Fort Beaufort Councillors, they shot him. The witness said that he was the car coming towards, going towards Lulama and they shot him. Lulama managed to go to one house, Nomita Tebe sent a message that Lulama was shot in that yard. When that car left, it shot the child, Lulama's friend but he did not die, he was taken to East London for an operation. He said that those were Siphiwo Ngqizani and Soki Gontsi who shot them. MS MAYA Are you referring to Patani Kahlani? MS KAMA Yes. MS MAYA Where is he now? MS KAMA He is not in this hall. MS MAYA Is he still alive? MS KAMA Yes, he is still alive. MS MAYA That is what happened to Lulama? MS KAMA It was at night, we couldn't go to town to report this to the police, because the Councillors were shooting all over in that time. We stayed with him until the next morning. My brother went in the following morning to call the police. Rali, a policeman came, they then took him to Stompie Funeral Parlour. He was already dead at that time. The police were there. It was said that he was not going to be kept in that mortuary. We were told to bury him on Wednesday. My brother refused because he told them that this child did not do anything, he was still very young. He then went to the Coloured Funeral Parlour in Newtown, he was admitted in that parlour. The police said that we must bury him immediately. My brother then said that we are going to bury him on Saturday because the rest of the family is not here. They then agreed. They then refused that, they said that we must bury him the following week, on Wednesday, they then said that people in the funeral must not be over 100. My brother argued with them, he told them that we are going to bury him according to our needs. He was then buried the following week on Wednesday. They disrupted the funeral. One person came from the township. He said that the Councillors are waiting for us, they are going to shoot the people who are in the funeral. The family then went back home. The people left, we left the people behind. When we arrived at home as a family, one other man came. We heard that Mr Madakana is dead. These people just shot at him. The people did not go back to my home to wash hands, everybody was all over the township. MS MAYA Thank you Ma'am. MS KAMA We as the family, we are waiting for people to come home, the hippo came together with the Councillors' cars. The police were also there. The car was in front of the hippo. They then shot at us while we were in our yard. I then woke up in hospital, I do not know what was going on. MS MAYA Thank you Ma'am. Were these Councillors staying in the township? MS KAMA Yes. MS MAYA Did you know any of them? MS KAMA Siphiwo Ngqizani and Soki were the ones who killed Lulama. MS MAYA Were they arrested? MS KAMA No, they were not arrested. When we went to court, the Magistrate said that the case was dismissed. MS MAYA What reason was given for this? MS KAMA There was no reason, because at that time, we could not argue with the Magistrate. If the Magistrate told us that the case was dismissed, we could not do anything. It was the Magistrate who told us that the case was dismissed. MS MAYA Do you remember the name of the Magistrate? MS KAMA No, I don't remember the name of the Magistrate. MS MAYA You said that when you were called in this house, you stayed with this child and he was not dead at the time? MS KAMA Yes. MS MAYA You did not manage to take him to hospital? MS KAMA Yes, we did not manage to take him to hospital, because it was dark and there was no electricity, there was no ambulance at that time. Because you would hire a car when somebody was sick. MS MAYA You mean that he passed away while you were sitting next to him? MS KAMA Yes. MS MAYA He was 13 years old? MS KAMA Yes, he was 13 years old, he was doing standard 1. MS MAYA Was he a member of a political organisation? MS KAMA He was very young Ma'am. My brother was the one who belonged to the ANC. My child was still very young, he did not understand anything. MS MAYA In other words he was just a victim who was going home? MS KAMA Yes. MS MAYA The last question. In your statement you mentioned that Dr Claasen was not allowed in the hospital when your child, when the post-mortem was conducted? MS KAMA Yes. MS MAYA We will now deal with Xolani's incident. Who was Xolani? MS KAMA Xolani was also my child. MS MAYA He was injured in 1992, on the 24th of March? MS KAMA Yes. MS MAYA Why was he shot by the police? MS KAMA At the time there was nothing going on in the township. The riot was in Tubalethu which was under the Ciskei Government. The Grahamstown police were in Ciskei. When they were coming from that township they came to the township, the two boys were playing outside. Xolani went to the toilet, he then said that he heard a gunshot and when he was coming out of the toilet, the police shot him. The police then dragged him to the street. When we went out we saw that Xolani was shot together with Mrs Siyona's child. The police did not allow us to come near to them. The police who shot Xolani was Constable Beni. MS MAYA Were you told why Xolani was shot? MS KAMA The police called an ambulance and another police van came. They did not want to take him, they called an ambulance and they ambulance is not allowed to take a dead body, but they wanted the ambulance to take his body because they did not want the people to know that there is a dead body. MS MAYA Who was saying this? MS KAMA The police was talking to the ambulance men to take the dead body together with Xolani. Xolani's body was full of pellets, even in the back there were pellets. He was bleeding. Even in winter, even today in winter, he is bleeding. He was doing standard 8 in 1992, he is still doing standard 8 even today. MS MAYA How old was Xolani in 1992? MS KAMA He was 18 years old. MS MAYA Ma'am, you have told us sad stories. Do you have a request to the Commission? MS KAMA I would like to finish off my story. Xolani was admitted in the hospital, we would go and visit him and Xolani was guarded by the police. He was under a police guard. We wanted to know why, but the police would tell us that he was just ordered to guard him. When we went one day to visit him, he was not there, they then transferred him to the police station hospital. We asked the Doctor why they transferred him to the police station, they told us that there was a hospital in prison. MS MAYA Which hospital was this? MS KAMA It was the hospital in Fort Beaufort. MS MAYA Do you know that Doctor? MS KAMA It was Dr Logna. MS MAYA Why was he transferred to the hospital at the police station? MS KAMA They said because he was a prisoner. MS MAYA Was he accused of anything? MS KAMA They said that he stoned a hippo. MS MAYA Did he appear in court? MS KAMA The Organisation arranged for a Lawyer, they found Mr Tabata, then Mr Tabata said that he must be released from prison and he will go to court now and then. The case was postponed all the time in 1992. The lawyer did not go to court and in April, 27th April 1993, the Magistrate said that he is going to charge the Attorney because he does not attend the court proceedings. The police from Grahamstown came, there were four police, there were five police. One of them shot Xolani, the other ones were witnesses. They said that they did not know the police who shot my son. They claimed that the person who was shot, was a schoolgoing child and I told them that Xolani was not from school at that time, so they said that they did not know Xolani. They were then found innocent. It was then said that two people cannot toyi-toyi and riot by themselves. That was the end of the case. MS MAYA Did you try to claim to the Government because of this? MS KAMA No, we did not try to do that. MS MAYA Did you go to any Attorney? MS KAMA No, we couldn't afford an Attorney. MS MAYA Would you like to add something else Ma'am? MS KAMA No, there is nothing, but I have a wish. I would like Constable Beni to see what to do because my child is retarded. He cannot work. I would like him to see what to do about him. MS MAYA Is he receiving any medical treatment? MS KAMA No, he spent six months in Santa hospital, even today he is not well. I am trying to take him to Doctors. MS MAYA Do you have a request to the Commission Ma'am? MS KAMA My request is that the Commission will see what to do for me. MS MAYA Thank you Ma'am, I will hand over to the Chairperson. CHAIRMAN Reverend Xundu? REVD XUNDU I am asking this question to both of you because the situation is similar. You said that the Councillors are the ones that were organising these attacks on people. Is there - what is the situation between yourselves and the Councillors now? MS SIYONA Are you asking this question to both of us? There is nothing between us, there is no conflict between the Councillors and us. REVD XUNDU Did they come to you and apologised to you? MS SIYONA No, they did not come to us, but it was said that peace will be made between them and the ANC. REVD XUNDU Thank you Mr Chairperson. CHAIRMAN Is Mr Nohashe still around? MS SIYONA Yes. CHAIRMAN Is he still alive? MS SIYONA Yes, he is still alive. CHAIRMAN We thank both of you. You have come to this Commission to tell us your tragic stories but we can see that you are strong mothers. You are heroes. We have noted what you have said to us. I want to inform you that in Adelaide there is a Doctor who sent a letter to us, he wants to send documents and records to us of the people who were assaulted by the police. But unfortunately we couldn't meet him, we wanted him to present these documents here in this Grahamstown hearing but we hope that he is the one you have been referring to. Thank you, you may go back to your seats.