hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION HEARINGS 1996-08-22 HEIDERVELD 1 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55167&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/heide/ct00104.htm CASE NO: CT/00104 VICTIM: NOMAKULA EVELYN ZWENI VIOLATION: SHOOTING, TORTURE AND BEATING TESTIMONIES FROM: NOMAKULA EVELYN ZWENI GIRLSIE NYENYEMBEZI DR BORAINE We invite Nomakula Evelyn Zweni to the witness stand please. Good morning Ms Zweni, you are very welcome, we are delighted to see you. Thank you for coming. Ms Zweni yes first put that on. Ms Zweni can you hear my voice and can you hear the translation? MS ZWENI Yes. DR BORAINE NOMAKULA EVELYN ZWENI Duly sworn states DR BORAINE Ms Zweni in welcoming you today, I notice that your troubles started as early as 1960 which is when the work [indistinct] MS ZWENI DR BORAINE MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA As you will remember events of 1967 marked by the Sowetho march on June 16th 1976 were followed by a series of events during 1977. One of the highlights of which was the death of Steve Biko and then in 1978. MS ZWENI I came here in 1957 - I came here in 1957, I came to my husband. I was born at George. I was married to my husband here in Cape Town. I was living at Jakkalsvlei, from there to Rylands. Then from there to Welkom, so which is now called Surrey Estate. There I met Debranch who told us to move, because there was a temporally building that was being built. I can still remember what they said to me. Because at that time I was still - I hated apartheid with all my heart. MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA We are sorry mamma - sorry mamma would you like us to continue? MS ZWENI Yes we must. MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA You said before you made provisions before - I just want you to tell us please what role did you play, you personally. What is it that you actually did in the preparations of the 21st of March, what did you do before the 21st was the day prior to everything that happened. We had a meeting at Guguletu, what I did I was going up and down, trying to organise the march, that was my role. A response about this pass - this pass laws. I came back home - I stay - I stayed for a long time at home. After - after 5 pm I went to Langa to get the response about the pass laws. When we got there, my question was, is the answer that we are getting now here. Nobody - nobody said anything, just shootings. Something said - somebody said it was very full in the room and somebody said we got this from Suvukwe Bullets were just flying all over, there was a [indistinct] I hid next to a shop, I told - I asked my God, I asked God - God if it is you who has allowed this, if it is you who want us to be killed [intervention] MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA MS ZWENI We are arrested, we are tired. You just go to Parow, you are told that you are trespassing, you go to Paarl, you are told that you are trespassing, which South Africa are we going to live in, if you go anywhere you are told that you are trespassing. After that the boers were just going in and out of our houses, taking people beating up people, eventually they came to me. MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA Excuse me mamma, you said you said as a - your husband was shot on the shoulder. MS ZWENI MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA MS ZWENI Since then I never rested. The boers were coming in and out, everyday they would come and fetch me, put me into a van, we were scattered all over and you would be beaten up. You would be beaten, you would even be beaten and not fight back and tired - and not fight back. Who told you that this is - this is your country. Who said to this is your - you - you - I use to say this is our land, you are visitors. While he was beating me, I would him tell him these things, you - I live in this country. Your - you will take your apartheid with you and - away to - from South Africa. MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA Mamma did you have a pass? MS ZWENI MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA MS ZWENI I saw the policeman, I saw them coming, I knew they coming to me. They asked me if now you have started a grand - they said is that an ANC. They said this is just - is this the same thing, just beat up a black woman. They beat me up, the boers that day, my ears were totally closed. They were slapping my face they would beat my head up. And I just wait for the next beating. Each time they - they hit me, each after every blow, I will just for the next one. But after a while - after a while I lost my energy. That group left and then a new group came in again of the boers. MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA Where were you taken mamma after that, did you - were you taken to hospital? MS ZWENI MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA Please tell us about the incidents in Bellville, what happened there. MS ZWENI They pointed a finger at me and I said to them if you - if you point a finger at me, why are you still doing that, it will be better if you were now crossing over - abroad and leave this country. You came to our country and take everything that is ours. I said you are the - you are the offender, I am not offending anyone. This is my country, I want to - I want to go around in the country with no fear. And you come to take our land. You - you came here as visitors, you are only 12, I must just tell you that. Our husbands would go and spend the money in those bars and come back with nothing to us. When I talk about apartheid, I feel like crying, I feel like screaming. MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA It is - it is obvious mamma that many things happened to you, it is not just the beatings by the police, the things that you talk about, there - they are talking about the way you lived then. We know - we can see that, that beating is not the only thing that tortured you. It is obvious to see that you are very angry to the people, we understand. MS ZWENI MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA When are you going to leave mamma - when did you leave mamma? MS ZWENI In 1978 the boers told me that I must go anywhere. I was not under house arrest. They will come in everyday just to check me up. One day I took a jacket, I took my shoes, put them into a bag, I simply left, I left. Then I came now - when - when I was told that Mandela is back. MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA Mamma how do you feel about coming here during these past minutes talking to us, how do you feel now that you have expressed yourself? MS ZWENI MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA Yes. MS ZWENI On this date, on the 22nd I do accept reconciliation with both hands. MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA Thank you mamma, thank you very much. Mamma is there anything else that you would like to add? Something else that you would like to go on about before we talk to the woman next to you? MS ZWENI MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA You said that Ms Girlsie Nyembezi will be your witness because she knows something. MS ZWENI Yes she knows something about 1976, there she is. MS NYEMBEZI All right. CHAIRPERSON Please mamma wait just a while. Yes Wendy. DR ORR Ms Zweni do you know the names of any of the police who beat you, sorry? Ms Zweni do you know the names of any of the police who beat you? MS ZWENI I would never know their - I will never know the police names, because I was never friendly with the police. There was nothing that I was associating me with the police anyway. DR ORR Ms Zweni you mentioned that you saw bodies when you - you said that the - you saw the things flying around and you saw bodies. Can you tell me a little bit more about that please. MS ZWENI About the bodies, these - these bodies were the result of the shootings from the citizens. On the way to the flats to Langa, there were - there were shootings and I am telling you for sure I saw - I saw this bodies, we buried those bodies, all those people we buried them. DR ORR Do you know how many of them there were more or less? MS ZWENI The ones I saw if I can just estimate, there were more than 20, but now I cannot really remember because it was a long time ago. DR ORR Thank you. MS ZWENI All right. CHAIRPERSON Any other questions, [indistinct] ADV NTSEBEZA They say there are only two people who died. But now you are talking about bodies. Now what do you say about that, are there three of them. No but the reports that we get say only two people. MS ZWENI Never there are not two, there were not two, they were bodies. They were not just two, there were strewn all over from twelve to fifteen or even twenty. There were even over twenty, some of - some of the people I actually saw them being shot myself. I witnessed this. I was going up and down by a car. I was looking at all of them, nobody can ever tell me about this, I was there myself. I was there from Langa to Guguletu, nobody can tell me any stories about that, I was there myself. CHAIRPERSON Denzil - no - you said you want to ask about her son. DR BORAINE MS ZWENI In the first place I left my child here. DR BORAINE How old was the child? MS ZWENI He or she was born in 1953 on the 20th of March. DR BORAINE [Indistinct] when you came back the child was gone? MS ZWENI DR BORAINE [Indistinct] MS ZWENI I have been looking for my child all over the place, I have been to Transkei, other people they were helping me, he or she is nowhere to be found. DR BORAINE [Indistinct] thank you very much. The other question is you mentioned that in the beating that they gave you in 1978, just before you left. That your hand was injured, your fingers, were cracked, how many fingers? MS ZWENI DR BORAINE There are three, and were there any other injuries on your body? MS ZWENI Yes I was kicked on my knee, here on this knee - on this leg. DR BORAINE [Indistinct] MS ZWENI DR BORAINE And the pain was so great but you decided that if you were going to live you had better leave. MS ZWENI DR BORAINE Thank you very much CHAIRPERSON Thank you mamma, we thank you very much. We also thank to have people like you - people who know that when there is somebody, who is trying to influence other people, this people can see this and try to prevent that. We also thank - thank you for your bravery. To see that you are not afraid - our presence here is because you people. [indistinct] is - was going to witness also about the statement given by Ms Zweni, but it looks like she is not going to say anything, because it looks like mamma you have already said everything. Mamma is that so? MS ZWENI She just wants to add something about the bodies. INTERPRETER Ms Girlsie Nyembezi is going to be - is going to take an oath, Dr Boraine is going to do the procedure. DR BORAINE Thank you very much. GIRLSIE NYEMBEZI Duly sworn states. DR BORAINE Pumla thank you. MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA Thanks Alex. Thank you mamma - after Dr Boraine, mamma you said you going to say a word or two. Thank you mamma for your coming here. We apologise for the fact that he had to go up the stairs, I can see that your knees are not that strong anymore. But then we thank you for coming. You said you want to say a few words. How do you know Ms Zweni, just please tell us that. MS NYEMBEZI We were called to talk to one of the members of the Parliament. We talked to him or her, there a woman was Ms Helen Suzmann. It was me, Zantsi - Ms Thesapi - Ms Mazula we went to count these graves, then we came to report. And she asked us are you sure about these - are you sure about these graves. We said yes. Then we went back and we sat there in that place. And we talked - we talked about these things to the - with the other cadres. We just said what we are going to do now, is to fight for the freedom. Now obviously people cannot just beat us up as if - we started with the - we started at the office. We thought this people are not well on their heads because - because of the way they beat us up. Today I have a house because of those woman. Those are my parents. MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA CHAIRPERSON Thank you mamma, now as you have promised that you coming back, you - we will hear your case then, thank you.