hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION HEARINGS 1996-04-24 HEIDERVELD 3 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55175&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/heide/ct00506.htm CASE NO: CT/00506 VICTIM: NOMBULELO DELATO VIOLATION: HUMAN BURNING TESTIMONIES FROM: BUSISWE KEWANA [daughter] THOMZAMA MALITI DR BORAINE BUSISWE KEWANA Duly sworn states DR BORAINE MS KEWANA Thank you. ADV POTGIETER Thank you Alex, good afternoon Busiswe. MS KEWANA Good afternoon Mr Denzil. ADV POTGIETER Thank you for coming and thank you for being patient. Your - your evidence - your evidence - can you hear me? MS KEWANA No. ADV POTGIETER Okay, can you hear me now? MS KEWANA No. ADV POTGIETER Or perhaps the translation. MS KEWANA Ja I hear you now. ADV POTGIETER MS KEWANA Yes. ADV POTGIETER MS KEWANA Yes. ADV POTGIETER Perhaps you could just give us some of your own - your personal background, what do you do at the moment. MS KEWANA ADV POTGIETER Thank you very much, when this incident happened that is here concerned you were actually in Queenstown you were studying, you were at school is that correct? MS KEWANA ADV POTGIETER Now what actually happened? MS KEWANA What happened while I was still in Queenstown, I received a telegram it was from my grandmother in Cape Town. It was telling me that my mother had passed away. He has been burnt. ADV POTGIETER MS KEWANA After that, my grandmother and others tried by all means to find out what happened. They went to Bloemfontein, to find out from that hospital where she was, to find out what happened. Now there, they were told that she has died. And she was burned while she was pregnant. ADV POTGIETER Now was there any indication given as to why this happened? MS KEWANA ADV POTGIETER Can I just ask you, you said that you were prevented from burying your mother in Colesberg, why - why was that and who - who prevented you? MS KEWANA ADV POTGIETER The people who were involved were they arrested, were they taken to Court? MS KEWANA ADV POTGIETER MS KEWANA No. ADV POTGIETER Perhaps I should just mention that with you on the witness stand is your grandmother. MS KEWANA Yes. ADV POTGIETER MS KEWANA Kewana. ADV POTGIETER MS KEWANA Yes. ADV POTGIETER Thank you, and you would like her to present her evidence as well. MS KEWANA Yes sir. ADV POTGIETER CHAIRPERSON Any questions, Dr Boraine. DR BORAINE MR POTGIETER Please. DR BORAINE Ms Maliti can you hear me all right? MS MALITI Yes. DR BORAINE You all right. MS MALITI Yes. DR BORAINE I have to ask you to take the oath like everybody else, so would you please stand. I am going to ask you and then you can make your response. THOMZAMMA MALITI Duly sworn states DR BORAINE Thank you very much please be seated, Mr Potgieter. ADV POTGIETER Thank you Dr Boraine, perhaps I must just hear whether the translation is coming through to you, you can perhaps just indicate, are they translating for you, is it coming through there. MR MALITI Yes. ADV POTGIETER Is it fine? MR MALITI Yes. ADV POTGIETER Okay, thank you very much. Thank you for coming, and of being of assistance to the Commission. Is it correct that you were - you presently living in Khayelitsha. MR MALATI Ja. ADV POTGIETER But in 1985 you were living in Colesberg. MR MALITI Yes that is true. ADV POTGIETER Thank you, and that you know the deceased that we talking about her. MR MALITI Yes I know him. ADV POTGIETER And you know about the incident that this case is about. MR MALITI Yes I know. ADV POTGIETER Can you still remember when it happened. MR MALITI Yes. ADV POTGIETER Can you give that date to us. MR MALITI It was the end of October - 10th of October 1985. ADV POTGIETER Can you tell us what you saw what happened. MR MALITI He was on his way to work, to young men - young men approached at him. Now they were five, when they saw him, they chased him. He went to hide in another house, and now they took him out of that house. They took him - they took his overall; and they poured him with petrol bomb. One of them held his feet and then they started igniting her - his - her feet. They were beating him up - her up. INTERPRETER ADV POTGIETER I assume that this incident had taken place in the township in Colesberg. MR MALITI Sorry? ADV POTGIETER I assume that the incident happened in the township in Colesberg. MR MALITI In the location. ADV POTGIETER In the location? MR MALITI Yes it was [indistinct] ADV POTGIETER Now was the deceased involved in any politics, supporting any movement? MR MALITI Yes he was in every meeting that was held, she never missed any. ADV POTGIETER In those days there was the UDF, the United Democratic Front. MR MALITI Yes it was the UDF. ADV POTGIETER She supported that movement? MR MALITI Sorry. ADV POTGIETER She was supporting that movement. MR MALITI Yes she use to attend UDF meetings every day. ADV POTGIETER You - I assume you knew the deceased well. MR MALITI ADV POTGIETER MR MALITI Yes I knew her well. ADV POTGIETER Ja, was there - was there any truth in this allegation that she was an impiempi an informer? MR MALITI ADV POTGIETER And the people responsible, who are they - I mean - what - where do they belong in the - in the situation in the location at that stage, were they comrades - what were they - were they [intervention] MR MALITI When they - what they called themselves was that they were comrades. ADV POTGIETER You say that their names were given to the police, do you know what happened further? MR MALITI ADV POTGIETER CHAIRPERSON Thank you - are there any further questions, Dumisa Ntsebeza. ADV NTSEBEZA Is your name Thomzama? MR MALITI Yes my name is Thomzama. ADV NTSEBEZA ADV NTSEBEZA You will correct me if I am wrong, she tried to clear her name. MR MALITI Yes sir. ADV NTSEBEZA According to the report that you gave us earlier, the people who were taking the statements earlier of the Commission. She paid in R100-00. MR MALITI Yes. ADV NTSEBEZA Where did she send this R100-00? MR MALITI She send it to the comrades and the comrades announced it that she did pay this R100-00 trying to ask for forgiveness for buying meat during a consumer boycott, they said they forgive her. At that time she was staying in town, not in the township. Now she took this letter to the township. ADV NTSEBEZA In other words she wrote a letter, saying that is asking for forgiveness for what she has done, and she would like to come back to live in the township, but - and she was told that - yes she has been forgiven by the comrades and again this was announced in the meeting. It was announced that yes she was forgiven? MR MALITI Yes this was so. ADV NTSEBEZA When she came back to the township she was under the impression that she was forgiven. MR MALITI Yes. ADV NTSEBEZA In other words her killing - she was killed while she was still under the impression that she was safe, knowing that she was forgiven. MR MALITI ADV NTSEBEZA When did the police come in? MR MALITI The police arrived when she was burnt already. ADV NTSEBEZA What do you mean now by that? MR MALITI When the police came in, they could - they were trying to find out where she was, but they could hear her crying. They saw her in the Main Road, she was already alight. ADV NTSEBEZA Did she run after she was burnt? MR MALITI ADV NTSEBEZA Was she walking around while she was naked? MR MALITI Yes. ADV NTSEBEZA Were the people afraid to help her? MR MALITI No-one was allowed by the comrades to help her, so she went alone to the van. ADV NTSEBEZA Where these comrades who were chasing people away, where were these people at this time? MR MALITI There were five of them, at the beginning there were too many but at the end they were just five, one of them was Tifo Sihlaba, it was Tabo Gusha, Pinkdyaan Kelem, Toto Mayaba, Tembile Falati. ADV NTSEBEZA What about Zolile Silwayane? MR MALITI Zolile Silwayane is the one who actually accepted the money, he is the leader of this whole situation. ADV NTSEBEZA I just wanted to clarify that. So Zolile is the one who accepted the money? MR MALITI Yes he is the one who - he is the one who announced that she has - he had received the money and that he was the one who actually went back again and said she must be ignited. ADV NTSEBEZA Now this policeman Fezile Malitiba - Maliti is he your uncle? MR MALITI Yes she is my uncle and the deceased uncle. We are [indistinct] to him. ADV NTSEBEZA So you are related to Fezile? MR MALITI ADV NTSEBEZA Who is Fezile now? MR MALITI ADV NTSEBEZA MR MALITI First they came to me, then they went to my - to the deceased. ADV NTSEBEZA What was your offence? MR MALITI Our offence was because we were related to this policeman - Fezile our uncle. I ran to Cape Town. ADV NTSEBEZA We understand Thomzama that this is very painful, could you please and endure until I finished asking questions. These questions will enable us to finish this report. MR MALITI ADV NTSEBEZA Just to clear something up, are you trying to say he was never well again mentally? MR MALITI ADV NTSEBEZA Do you know what happened to him? MR MALITI ADV NTSEBEZA Is there anyone among you who can still go back to Colesberg? MR MALITI ADV NTSEBEZA I heard that one of your wishes was that you would like to have her bones back. MR MALITI Yes we would like them to come back to Colesberg. ADV NTSEBEZA Among these people who are now out of jail, are they here? MR MALITI Yes they are all out of jail. ADV NTSEBEZA MR MALITI ADV NTSEBEZA I am very sorry that we have to ask you these painful questions, but I am sure that you also understand that we have a duty here to perform, thank you very much. CHAIRPERSON Thank you, anyone with a question, Mary Burton. MS BURTON Just one question, [indistinct] whether Fezile Maliti has - is still in Colesberg? MS KEWANA [No audible answer] MS BURTON Can I ask the question again, I just wanted to ask whether your uncle Fezile Maliti is in Colesberg, whether he returned to Colesberg or where he is now. MS KEWANA He was still - he was in Colesberg, he just came last year and he says he is not going anywhere. MS BURTON Thank you and may I ask another question. You - as I understand your statement there were a number of possible reasons why there was this attack on your mother, because she had bought things from the shop although she had tried to make up for that, all because these were suspicions that she was a an informer and also because she was related to a policeman. MS KEWANA Yes that is so. MS BURTON MS KEWANA MS BURTON And you [indistinct] in your statement that those people were on the one hand working for the organisation but on the other hand also working for the police. MS KEWANA MS BURTON MS KEWANA [No audible answer] MS BURTON Shall I say it again, so you would like us also to try and find out more about that so we can understand better. MS KEWANA Yes I would be very happy if you can do that. I would be happy if she would be buried again in Colesberg and then she would again get her own house. MS BURTON Thank you. CHAIRPERSON MS KEWANA Thank you. CHAIRPERSON You may now leave. MS KEWANA CHAIRPERSON