hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION HEARINGS 1996-04-24 HEIDERVELD 3 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55177&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/heide/ct00600.htm CASE NO: CT/00600 VICTIM: MLANDELI WALTER MQIKELA VIOLATION: TORTURE TESTIMONIES FROM: MLANDELI MQIKELA [son] NTOSILE MQIKELA [father] DR BORAINE Mr Mqikela can you hear me? MR MQIKELA Yes. DR BORAINE Have you got the earphones all right - okay I will be speaking to you in English the translation will be into Xhosa is that all right, is it coming through all right. MR MQIKELA Yes I can hear it. DR BORAINE Mr Mqikela I have to ask you to please stand for the taking of the oath. MLANDELI WALTER MQIKELA Duly sworn states DR BORAINE Thank very much. Mr Ntosile Private Mqikela that is you. MR MQIKELA Yes that is me. DR BORAINE Stand please for the taking of the oath. NTOSILE PRIVATE MQIKELA Duly sworn states DR BORAINE But we need to hear your story, so as to have a completed picture as possible of what has taken place in South Africa between 1960 and 1993. So I hope you will feel very relaxed you are amongst friends and to assist you in telling your story I am going to hand you over to fellow Commissioner Mary Burton. MS BURTON Thank you, perhaps for those of you who have a programme of the days hearings in front of you, this is the second family on our programme because we are still awaiting the witnesses who will testify to the first story. Mr Mlandeli Mqikela welcome here this morning, I hope you will feel comfortable and relax as we give you a chance to tell your story. MR MQIKELA I am sure I will. MS BURTON MR MQIKELA Okay. MS BURTON You were at school in New Crossroads in 1985 and there came a day when there was a meeting and all the students went to the meeting, is that right? MR MQIKELA That is all true. MS BURTON And then the police arrived and told you that the meeting must disperse. MR MQIKELA MS BURTON Would you like to tell us a little bit more about what happened then. - MR MQIKELA Well I decided let me obey the police, and I was just trying to - to get back home at Nyanga East. All the way we were hiding, hiding away from the police, all the way to my place. When I was trying to get to the terminus road, on my way to my home. When I was still at Terminus Road, the police approached me, there were too many. I was trying to go to New Crossroads, I saw several policemen. Some were in their vans, they were quite a group, a large group, they were in their uniform. I was also in my uniform, because I was from school. MS BURTON Take your time. MR MQIKELA And now these people opened for these police, they asked where is the student who came in - into this house, one of those men who was with a grandma and another sister in that house and their parents. They said to the man of the house, he denied - he denied knowing anything about me. And the grandmother said yes there is a student in here, so the police came to fetch me out of - under the bed. After that torture, they told me to get up and run, poking me with the batons. Poking me with the guns as well. I ran to KTC there was another man who helped me who I cannot now mention. He organised a car for me so that I can be taken to the hospital. During that whole confusion I found myself in the Guguletu police station, they were taking my statement, there was another man who helped me a man that I met when I was at Guguletu police station, his name was Mr Van Eck. Now I tried to read a book, just to see if I can be able to do this, but even now I still have a problem now, mentally. Even at school I encounter enormous problems, my memory is too short, that really affects me now at school. I got lawyers from Market Street in Cape Town. MS BURTON Thank you - thank you very much for telling us all of those details. How old were you when all of this happened? MR MQIKELA I was 19 years old. MS BURTON Were you able to finish school? MR MQIKELA MS BURTON And have you found it difficult to find work? MR MQIKELA Yes I worked before, I have been only working on casual jobs. MS BURTON Do you remember or did you ever know the names of any of the policemen who beat you? MR MQIKELA MS BURTON What have you hoped that the Truth Commission can do for you? MR MQIKELA Firstly I would appreciate it if the Truth Commission since I was beaten up by these whites, if they can investigate for me all the things that happened on that day. To please investigate for me who were those police, all those police who beat me up, all those police who said that I lied and yet they did. Secondly, when I reported this case through to the Court I claimed for - for some assistance, and I would appreciate it if the Commission can give me assistance to - to treat me properly so that I can be able to be well again like I was before, that is my problem and now that is my wish that the Truth Commission can help me with. MS BURTON CHAIRPERSON Are there any other questions, Pumla Gobodo. MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA Thank you, thank you for the explanation that you gave me - you gave us, I am trying to have a picture of what happened to you on the 2nd of October, you were leaving school that day. Are you all right. MR MQIKELA Okay yes we can continue. MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA Which school did you attend? MR MQIKELA It was X-3 then which is now called Stembilo Matiso. MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA Where is the school today? MR MQIKELA It is at 78 Koornhof Road at New Crossroads. It is opposite 3A, NY78. MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA When I estimate this distance from terminus to 78 how long is that distance? MR MQIKELA From where. MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA From the point where you started running to KTC. MR MQIKELA MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA Ja you are justified to ask who are the people who did this. All I want to find out is that the most important thing to you to find out who are the people who beat you up. MR MQIKELA MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA What were you doing, why did they beat you up, why did they chase you, why was it you, can you just tell us a little what happened then, why was this happening to you? MR MQIKELA MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA So you saying actually is to wear a uniform. MR MQIKELA Yes I think so. MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA Thank you. DR BORAINE Before we continue, the Archbishop, Chairperson of the Commission has been called out from a very urgent matter and he will be leaving us now and return as soon as he can, thank you, Glenda. MS WILDSCHUT Mr Mqikela, I would like to - I would like to ask you a few questions which would help us to understand how you feeling now after the incident. I know it might be a bit hard for you to talk about that, but may I have your permission to ask those questions, just a few to give us an idea of how you are feeling now after the incident. MR MQIKELA Spiritually I am still not satisfied even my health is not 100%, even now as I am trying to talk to you, my chest hurts, I am not free even now, spiritually and physically, no I am not free at all even mentally things are still very difficult for me. GLENDA WILDSCHUT You - you talked about the headaches that you getting and the problems with your memory. Can I ask you a few questions about your headaches, when you get those headaches now, what do you - what do you have to do when you get headaches, do you have to stay at home, do you have to lie down and sleep, what do you do when you get those headaches, try and give us an idea of how severe those headaches are. MR MQIKELA GLENDA WILDSCHUT MR MQIKELA DR BORAINE Mr Ntsebeza. ADV NTSEBEZA MR MQIKELA ADV NTSEBEZA During this time - during the Courts were you told to go and identify these police? MR MQIKELA ADV NTSEBEZA Is it because you were not - even not - these people were not put in front of you, is that why they said you were lying. MR MQIKELA ADV NTSEBEZA MR MQIKELA ADV NTSEBEZA Now do you think that these lawyers can have the details about this? MR MQIKELA Yes I am sure they would. ADV NTSEBEZA Would you allow us now to go to these lawyers and ask them. MR MQIKELA Yes I would be happy if you can. ADV NTSEBEZA Thank you. DR BORAINE Any further questions, would you like to proceed to the next witness. MS BURTON Thank you, thank you very much Mlandeli, we will now ask your father what he remembers of this case. Good morning Mr Mqikela. MR MQIKELA Good morning. MS BURTON You can hear me all right and the translation is working. MR MQIKELA Yes I am listening to you. MS BURTON Your son came home to you that day on the 2nd of October. MR MQIKELA When I got to him I saw him his whole head was bandaged and his lips were split apart and his whole body was swollen, he was beaten up. I asked him why were you beaten up like this, no I was just running away from the police, we were at school and we ran away because they were chasing us. MS BURTON And then what happened? MR MQIKELA This whole case ended up to the lawyers, is there something that I am leaving out - indeed he met Van Eck when he went to Crossroads, he is the one who - who really helped us because he was heavily bleeding at that time. You can also imagine if your mouth is split in two - the mouth that you are looking at now, it is the Groote Schuur that fixed it, it was split in two, his teeth were broken, that one I can remember clearly. I have been watching him because he is my son, that time he was still very young. Now this case went to the lawyers, these lawyers he is talking about. I was also called upon to sign some documents so that we can be able to go to the police station which was called Royal that time. After that we were told we should wait to be called to Court. Now the reason why the second statement was - just disappeared I have no idea. Now this one now was my problem when it was like this, this now was too much for my son, I had to do this - I had to stand up for this myself. And I told myself I am going to get a lawyer now for this, I am not signing anything my lawyer will sign. I told them give me all the documents so that I can give them to my lawyer, then the lawyer will be dealing with your bosses. He met them, they never came back to me, giving me any response to that. MS BURTON Thank you Mr Mqikela, can you just tell us that was a different lawyer that you went to. MR MQIKELA Now that was for my own purposes in connection with my work, I just had a small problem, but he said to me any document that comes to you even if it comes from work, do not sign anything with your own hands, it could be very difficult and dangerous for you. Now that one was not connected with my son. MS BURTON I see thank you Mr Mqikela, I have no more questions. MR MQIKELA I am happy that what I said is clear, thank you. DR BORAINE There are a couple of other questions that we might have, Mr Ntsebeza. ADV NTSEBEZA Just one question Mr Mqikela. MR MQIKELA I am listening to you. ADV NTSEBEZA Did you eventually know how much those State expenses were? MR MQIKELA ADV NTSEBEZA Was there any money taken from your salary? MR MQIKELA Then once - one incident, this son of mine here, he was wearing a white jacket, he had to jump over a fence in another - in another house, he was running away from the shooting police, it was on a Friday that day. My house is a corner house, I could see this. I saw a police station van - a van from the police I am just talking about all these things that happened before, all the agony that we went through, I am just telling you all this, if I can just go on I will never stop. ADV NTSEBEZA Thank you. DR BORAINE Ms Gobodo. MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA You have said two things in your - in your presentation, the first thing you said is that the law allows them to do whatever they want to do to us. And this was the case in those days, the second thing that you said is that if you were a person in authority, even if you gave false evidence in Court, this was your rights. Now this is what you said. MR MQIKELA Okay. MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA MR MQIKELA You have a good question there, according to my opinion, it is a Court that is suppose to have judgements it is suppose to have - it is suppose to sift which is the truth and which are lies. If the Court cannot do that, then you get very disappointed. What I expected was that the Court should bring up the truth as it was. But I found out the Courts themselves were lying instead I had to pay. MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA Thank you sir. DR BORAINE And you have reminded us again of the very high price that children and young people had to pay in order for South Africa to move towards a new dispensation and a new democracy. We are grateful to you for in the mists of your own ill health and still suffering from the results of that savage beating coming here to us today, you and your father. You have heard what we have asked you if you could do for you, we going to try. We are not people who possess miracles and great powers, but what we can do, we will do and that you have our promise of. Thank you very much indeed again for coming to us today and go well. MR MQIKELA Thank you.