hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION HEARINGS 1996-04-23 HEIDERVELD 2 CT/00603 HENRY KWISOMBA [husband] JOAN MANTOMBI KING, DAVID MOTLALE KILLING https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55179&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/heide/ct00603.htm CHAIRPERSON This is our next witness, Joan Mantombi King. Please come up. JOAN MANTOMBI KING Duly sworn states CHAIRPERSON That is David, David Motlale. Mr David Motlale are you also going to speak in English? MR MOTLALE DAVID MOTLALE Duly sworn states CHAIRPERSON In telling your story you will be assisted by Denzil Potgieter. ADV POTGIETER Thank you Chairperson. Good afternoon Ms King and Mr Motlale. MS KING Good afternoon. ADV POTGIETER Welcome here. Your case relates to the death of your husband? MS KING Yes. ADV POTGIETER In December of 1976. MS KING Yes. ADV POTGIETER Under circumstances which my colleague Mr Ntsebeza next to me here has earlier so eloquently sketched. In fact the man we heard looks like Mr Barnard, but your story in fact deals with a different level of that situation and that was the conflict between the migrant hostel people. MS KING Yes. ADV POTGIETER Who were also referred to as "wit doeke"? MS KING Yes. ADV POTGIETER And they were permanent residents of Guguletu and Nyanga? MS KING Yes. ADV POTGIETER Now you were married, is it correct, to - during his lifetime- to Henry Kwisomba? MS KING Yes, I was. ADV POTGIETER Are there children born of that marriage? MS KING Yes, I had three children. ADV POTGIETER Three children? MS KING Yes. ADV POTGIETER Can you give us their ages and their, their sex- the gender? MS KING At the time of his death my daughter Smongile, sitting there, she was 10 years old. ADV POTGIETER Take your time Ms King. MS KING And my son Boldwin was 8 years old and my baby Victor he was 18 months old. ADV POTGIETER And is it correct that you were living in Guguletu at that time? MS KING Yes. ADV POTGIETER Now what was the situation like in Guguletu towards the end of 1976? MS KING ADV POTGIETER So you left (I am sorry to interrupt you), you left with the children? MS KING Yes I left with the children. ADV POTGIETER And your husband what happened to him? MS KING And he stayed behind and - in the house. ADV POTGIETER At the home in Guguletu? MS KING Yes. ADV POTGIETER And you say that you only returned in the new year. MS KING Yes. ADV POTGIETER Of 1977? MS KING Yes. ADV POTGIETER And then what - what happened? MS KING I remember on coming back that day, it was on the 6th of January, and as we went into Bellville( I had R1,00 in my pocket) and there was a boy selling newspapers on the corner. And as this car was standing at the robots, I still wanted to buy this newspaper, the Cape Times. And then I checked myself again and I said," Bongi" (that is my daughter), I said to her: " I am going to keep this R1,00. I am not going to buy this paper after all ,in case when we get home there is no bread. Then I can buy you some bread with this R1,00." ADV POTGIETER That was the paper of the 6th, the same day that you returned? MS KING ADV POTGIETER And did the newspaper write about your husband? MS KING ADV POTGIETER Now that was on the 6th - it was the very day that you came home? MS KING Yes. ADV POTGIETER And you then found the situation where the husband is missing and nobody could assist. Nobody could tell you what happened. What did you then do? MS KING I went to a neighbour, another neighbour, aunty Mary, because she used to go to church with us. Her sister-in-law was there from Johannesburg. And [intervention] ADV POTGIETER MS KING I remember when I went there and it was just a few doors away from my house. And her sister-in-law was down from Johannesburg and, when they saw me, they were also surprised to see me. And then they said a little prayer while I was there and they said I must go out the following day and go look for my husband. And it was only then (because Henry and Martin they were supporting those Afro hairstyles at that time they looked, you could have thought they were brothers) and so, really, we went in and they pushed him on a trolley in the passage there. And there was a glass - a partition- a glass partition. And then I saw him, but I said, "But he looks very funny you know". ADV POTGIETER Did you try to find out what possible could of happened to your husband? MS KING ADV POTGIETER So you could never really find out exactly what - what happened? MS KING ADV POTGIETER Until very recently. MS KING Yes, only now recently, ja. ADV POTGIETER Now was your husband involved in politics? What kind of person was he? MS KING He was a very happy person. He used to like life a lot, because I remember, he used to like listening to jazz. And he used to play the trumpet. And he was also a drama student at the Gwezi Centre so whenever there were plays and so on, with Mavis Taylor and them, they always used to go there. And afterwards they used to come to my house and have a cup of tea or whatever, you know. And there were always people coming in and out. He was a happy person. ADV POTGIETER A sociable kind of person? MS KING ADV POTGIETER Would you call him a political activist or what? How would you describe him on that level? MS KING ADV POTGIETER Now, subsequently, there was an inquest which you actually attended. Is that correct? MS KING Yes. ADV POTGIETER What happened there? MS KING ADV POTGIETER There was a - there was a lawyer that actually represented the family at that inquest. Is that correct? MS KING Yes. ADV POTGIETER And did she make any remarks about the findings of the inquest? MS KING ADV POTGIETER And is it correct that, that second version of the Groote Schuur Hospital doctor that actually coincided with what you heard recently, actually happened? MS KING That he was shot, yes. ADV POTGIETER MS KING Yes. ADV POTGIETER MS KING Yes, he was- yes. ADV POTGIETER And what - what was your circumstances - your husband has suddenly died? MS KING Died. ADV POTGIETER And you were left with the three young children. MS KING ADV POTGIETER You were doing - doing more than one - one job? MS KING Yes. ADV POTGIETER At the same time really? MS KING ADV POTGIETER And did you then actually raise the children? MS KING Yes, I did. ADV POTGIETER And you worked for the family? MS KING Yes. ADV POTGIETER Is there anything else that you want to add to the - to the testimony? MS KING ADV POTGIETER What is there that you feel the Commission can do to assist? MS KING ADV POTGIETER Now you could never yourself follow up those two conflicting versions of what actually happened whether it was a injury to the head or whether it was a gunshot injury? MS KING Yes. ADV POTGIETER MS KING Yes please. ADV POTGIETER If you can still remember who was the lawyer that acted for the family? MS KING ADV POTGIETER Okay. MS KING ADV POTGIETER Typical lawyer. MS KING But it was a white girlie. ADV POTGIETER Okay, thank you Ms King. MS KING Thank you. CHAIRPERSON Thank you very much, any additional questions? UNKNOWN COMMISSIONER MS KING UNKNOWN COMMISSIONER Thank you. MS SOOKA Ms King you have two children? MS KING MS SOOKA How old are they? MS KING My daughter is now - she is now 30. MS SOOKA 30. MS KING Yes and my son is 28. MS SOOKA Okay, thank you. Now I was trying to determine how old her children were. MS KING Okay. MS SOOKA Thank you. MS KING Thanks. CHAIRPERSON Thank you very much, we will now hand over to Mr Potgieter to facilitate Mr David. ADV POTGIETER MR MOTLALE Yes. CHAIRPERSON Can you - can you please just get a little closer to the microphone? Thank you. ADV POTGIETER MR MOTLALE ADV POTGIETER We are connected, thank you. Just briefly [indistinct] happening what was the situation like - it was 26/27 December 1976 in Guguletu. What was happening? MR MOTLALE One of us saw one of these people and when this car got to the corner, he went to these people and he asked, "What is going on now?". It turned out to be the police who were in this car. They said, "Oh, no! We are not here to fight. We are just here to protect you, because we know that there are people who are coming to beat you. This Valiant was leading. Now, we were also a big group and in front of us there was the youth [indistinct] shouted and they said, "There is a car coming over there". But we told ourselves that we were not there to fight. We were not going to fight with the police at all. We just wanted to find out about these people who wanted to come and beat us up. We wanted to find out, really, what was going to happen. ADV POTGIETER MR MOTLALE ADV POTGIETER Thank you Mr Motlale, thank you Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON Thank you. Any - any questions? No. Mr David, thank you. Ms King, Pumla mentioned something that has struck me about the testimony today which is this exquisite cruelty in not telling people what have happened.