hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION HEARINGS 1996-04-25 HEIDERVELD 4 CT/ OO606 WISEMAN MADODOMZI, THAMSANQU LUTYA MAUDLINA LUTYA [sister and mother] KILLING and DISAPPEARANCE https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55180&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/heide/ct00606.htm DR BORAINE The next witness that I will call is Maudlina Lutya, Ms Lutya welcome we very pleased to see you toady. MS LUTYA Thank you. DR BORAINE Are you all right? MS LUTYA Yes I am fine. DR BORAINE Fine will you need the earphones, okay. Ms Lutya can you - can you hear my voice on the earphones and can you hear the translation, not yet. We will just wait until that is fixed please. MS LUTYA DR BORAINE MS LUTYA DR BORAINE Excellent, thank you very much we welcome you again. Ms Lutya will you please stand for the taking of the oath. MAUDLINA LUTYA Duly sworn states DR BORAINE You have come to tell us a story not only about one person, but about two. One who was killed and one who has disappeared so you have a double agony that has been with you for a long time. Mary Burton one of our Commissioners is going to assist you to tell your very own story and I am going to hand over to her now, thank you. MS BURTON Thank you, welcome Ms Lutya, thank you for coming. MS LUTYA Thank you. MS BURTON I am glad that you have some family members with you for your support I believe one of them is your son, is that right? MS LUTYA MS BURTON And the other. MS LUTYA Brother. MS BURTON Welcome to both of you, thank you very much for coming. Mamma Lutya I am going to begin by reading an extract from some of the history of that time in 1976 when your brother was killed there was a Commission that looked into the events in 1976 and it reported about Wiseman Madodomzi Lutya that he had - that he was aged 22 and that he was killed by the South African Police on the 11th of August 1976 in Guguletu. MS LUTYA On this day of the 11th of August 1976 it was in the afternoon around 3:00 pm. We saw student going up and down the streets. We tried to ask, we were told that these students were trying to burn up the bars because they blamed the bars for the deterioration of black people. Yes they did demolish the bars, they burnt them up. The policemen came and they shot at the students. Madodomzi was working in Town - working for lawyers, when he came at home he just took off his jacket and he said he just wanted to find out what was happening. And he never came back. We found him after three weeks and he was shot. The bullet had gone through his ears. And his head split and some of his brains was - were out, we found him in the Salt River mortuary. The person told me where he was exactly in the Salt River mortuary and we only found him after three weeks after he has been shot. Since then my mother started to have an heart attack, and he died of the heart attack. She died of the heart attack. MS BURTON [indistinct] a long time that he was missing and that you had to try and find out where he was. MS LUTYA MS BURTON Would people like to ask questions now about this part of the story? CHAIRPERSON Dr Boraine. DR BORAINE Thank you for - for telling us that story, I just need a little help to understand. There was tear gassing and there was shooting and your brother was missing. And you never knew where he was, did you - sorry please continue. MS LUTYA DR BORAINE [indistinct] did you report his disappearance to anybody? MS LUTYA We went to the police station, and some of the people in the community at large tried to help us, because we were telling everybody that we have this problem. DR BORAINE And no-one came to visit you from the police station or - to tell you anything? MS LUTYA Nobody came to us at all. DR BORAINE MS LUTYA DR BORAINE Do you have that death certificate now? MS LUTYA DR BORAINE Would you like us to try and see if we can find out about the death certificate? MS LUTYA DR BORAINE And perhaps also to find out exactly what happened in the inquest as to how your brother died. MS LUTYA I would be very happy. DR BORAINE Thank you. CHAIRPERSON Advocate Ntsebeza. ADV NTSEBEZA Ja just a follow up question, there is a note from our research department that a post-mortem was conducted on what was called a black male, aged at 22 years, killed by SAP on 11 August 1976. The post-mortem number was 2047/76. MS LUTYA ADV NTSEBEZA Thank you. CHAIRPERSON Thank you. MS BURTON We can go on. CHAIRPERSON Is there anything you would like to say mamma, is there anything you want to add. MS LUTYA Yes sir there is. MS BURTON [indistinct] - just before we do - this is at least the second time I think today and in these hearings where we have heard of an inquest being held without the family being notified or being given any opportunity to appear. I think that this is something else that the Commission must look into. MS LUTYA MS BURTON [indistinct] your family has had many losses. Can you - can you think of where the Truth Commission can do something to help you. MS LUTYA MS BURTON Thank you. CHAIRPERSON Advocate Denzil - Denzil Potgieter. ADV POTGIETER MS LUTYA I know the child who went him but he know, the child died. That was his best friend, he died in a car accident. ADV POTGIETER Is he also the one that told you that Thamsanqa was put into a yellow police van or is it a different person. MS LUTYA ADV POTGIETER Did he - did he give you any idea as to why Thamsanqa was picked up by the police, what happened there? MS LUTYA ADV POTGIETER What was his age when he disappeared? MS LUTYA When he got arrested he was 25 years old. ADV POTGIETER Do you still remember what he was wearing - what clothes he had on and that day? MS LUTYA What he had on? ADV POTGIETER His clothes, can you give us an idea of what he was wearing when he disappeared. MS LUTYA ADV POTGIETER Is there any other [intervention] MS LUTYA Nothing else, it was a very hot day that day. ADV POTGIETER And is there any special characteristic that one can identify him by? Is there any outstanding feature about his appearance for example, or perhaps it could help. MS LUTYA ADV POTGIETER Yes, I was just going to ask you that, perhaps that will be of some assistance to us. And if you could possibly arrange for us to get one. MS LUTYA Yes definitely. ADV POTGIETER MS LUTYA Thank you. CHAIRPERSON Dr Orr. DR ORR It must have been very painful for you to loose someone on the day which should otherwise have been so very joyful and I really do share your pain. Do you know when your son was put in the police van was he well and healthy or had he been injured in the shooting and which has been going on. MS LUTYA CHAIRPERSON Dr Boraine. DR BORAINE You - you mentioned that he had a daughter and a son, that you are looking after them now, is that right? MS LUTYA DR BORAINE The son was taken by the girl friend. MS LUTYA DR BORAINE MS LUTYA She is with me. DR BORAINE How old is she? MS LUTYA She is 8 years. DR BORAINE She is at school. MS LUTYA She is at Good Hope Primary School. DR BORAINE Thank you very much, and her name? MS LUTYA Ulileltu. DR BORAINE Thank you very much. MS LUTYA Thank you. CHAIRPERSON Mamma - thank you very much mamma. Our sympathies come towards you, we understand your pain thank you very much.