hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1997-06-10 EAST LONDON 2 MRS PRALENE MORA BOTHA EC1587/96 ELN https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55230&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/hrvel2/elnbotha.htm REV FINCA We would like to call on Pralene Mora Botha. Welcome, is it Mrs or Miss? MRS BOTHA Pralene. REV FINCA Pralene we thank you for coming forward to give your testimony to the Commission to-day I see you have someone accompanying you. Is she a relative of yours? MRS BOTHA Yes, she is my sister-in-law. REV FINCA Is she going to be giving evidence as well? MRS PARROT Is it necessary for me to give evidence as well? REV FINCA MRS PARROT Is it necessary for me to give evidence as well? REV FINCA REV XUNDU Thank you Mr Chairman. MRS PRALENE MORA BOTHA (sworn states) REV FINCA Thank you Reverend Xundu we will ask Mrs Crichton to put a few questions to you based on your statement. MISS CRICHTON Thank you Mr Chairperson. Good afternoon Pralene. MRS BOTHA Good afternoon. MISS CRICHTON You are here this afternoon to tell us about your husband George and his death on the fifteenth of December in 1976 but before you start could you tell us a little bit about George about his character, what kind of a person he was before we actually start. MRS BOTHA George was a school teacher and he related very well to his pupils and to the people and persons around him he was loved very much by his family, his mother, his sisters and the rest of his extended family as well as by us. His friends and his pupils still speak of him to this day. They still tell us that they miss him and that they can actually think how he would have reacted especially to the occurrences of our times. MISS CRICHTON At that time in 1976 there were student uprisings around the country, what was the situation in the area where you come from in Port Elizabeth? MRS BOTHA At the time he was teaching at Patterson High School and even those pupils during those last six months had occasions where they also had clashes with the police or where they also came into uprising with the situation at the schools and in the country and George himself was very much involved with the pupils. He was actually the person who stood behind them when persons perhaps some of his colleagues or other adults were a bit more conservative in their approach to the situation George would actually be with the pupils and understand their position and not condemn them for the stance they took. MISS CRICHTON Thank you for filling us in on that bit of background, can you now proceed with the story of exactly what happened as you understand it. MRS BOTHA George was detained from his school his place of work on the tenth of December at about noon that day. He was detained with another colleague of his Miss Amelia Gervel but she was released later that same day. George was detained and taken to a police station and from there he was taken to the Sanlam building in Strand Street. He was held there and at various police stations or police cells without us actually having any access to him. On the Friday when he was detain I tried to find out where he was held but nobody was available to inform me of his whereabouts and of course the reason why he was detained. MISS CRICHTON When he was actually arrested who came to arrest him at the school? MRS BOTHA MISS CRICHTON Can you now continue and tell us what happened on the Wednesday when Colonel Snyman came to see you. MRS BOTHA MISS CRICHTON MRS BOTHA Afterwards we learnt that he had been held at the Despatch police stations overnight but he was brought to the Sanlam building in Strand Street for questioning during the course of the day. MISS CRICHTON And what did they tell you the cause of death was? MRS BOTHA They said that he had flung himself down the stairwell from the sixth floor of the Sanlam building. MISS CRICHTON Was there an inquest? MRS BOTHA Yes, an inquest was held about May the following year, May 1977. MISS CRICHTON Did you attend that inquest? MRS BOTHA Yes, I did. MISS CRICHTON Can you tell us something of what happened at those proceedings? MRS BOTHA MISS CRICHTON One of the reasons why I asked you to give a character reference, if you want to call it a reference, at the beginning was so that we would know a little bit of what his personality was like. Do you believe that he committed suicide? MRS BOTHA No, I never believed it and nobody else has actually ever believed it. MISS CRICHTON What do you think happened? MRS BOTHA George was held in detention for five days he was questioned, he was most probably tortured and perhaps during one of the torture sessions they went a bit too far and perhaps he died at that point or perhaps he was mutilated at that stage that it would have been better or they felt it was better to just finish off the deed. MISS CRICHTON Are you aware that there is a document that comes out of UNESCO entitled Commission on Human Rights from the Thirty Fifth Session of the Agenda, Item 16. Do you know about this document? MRS BOTHA MISS CRICHTON In the document there is medical evidence given not only by the State Pathologists but also by a Doctor Cooper, have you heard about this Doctor Cooper? MRS BOTHA MISS CRICHTON Because in this document it is actually stating that there were wounds on the body which were inflicted some hours before the death of your husband and this document will be handed in the TRC so that they can use it in their investigations. Obviously this has had an effect on you and your family, could you tell us Pralene how has affected your children? MRS BOTHA MISS CRICHTON In coming to the Truth Commission what are your expectations as to how we will help you? MRS BOTHA MISS CRICHTON MRS BOTHA MISS CRICHTON MRS BOTHA MISS CRICHTON We will need to swear her in if she does want to add something. Would you like us to swear you in? MRS PARROT I will say something. MISS CRICHTON Can you swear her in? What is your full name? MRS PARROT Roseline Parrot. REV XUNDU Roseline Parrot would you kindly stand please. MRS ROSELINE PARROT (sworn states) REV XUNDU Thank you, you may take your seat. MISS CRICHTON Thank you Mr Chairperson. Right would you like to tell us what it is you feel you would like to add to that? MRS PARROT MISS CRICHTON REV FINCA Pralene and Roseline, we thank you for sharing with us a painful experience which has stayed with you since the death of you husband for sharing the agony that you go through as you ask yourself what exactly happened and I want to say there are a number of people in this country who have experienced this occurrence of people who are said to have thrown themselves out of the windows of interrogation chambers and the question that lingers in their minds is did they really throw themselves was the situation that they were experiencing in the detention cells or in the torture chambers was it so unbearable? What exactly was happening that was so unbearable that they felt that they should throw themselves out of the windows or is the truth perhaps that they got killed and then were thrown out or were they thrown out in order to be killed? Those are the questions which continue to remain unresolved in the minds of the people who have gone through this experience and now I want to say that there are a few of them, a few incidents of people who have just been reported to have thrown themselves out of detention, out of the windows of interrogation chambers. We share the agony with you and we share the call that you have made for the truth to be told by those people who are responsible for this, those who were responsible for detaining George and those who were responsible for looking after him during the period that he was detained and we share your call in pleading with them to tell us the truth so that we know.