hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1997-06-10 EAST LONDON 2 MR MXOLISI CANWELL LELEKI EC110/96 ELN https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55235&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/hrvel2/elnlelek.htm MR MXOLISI CANWELL LELEKI (Sworn states) REV FINCA MR SANDI Thank you Mr Chairman. Mr Leleki according to your statement you are going to speak about your being attacked in East London being accused of being an informer. Lets not go into detail about particular incidents before you were attacked when you almost lost you life being kicked and beaten with weapons. Who was attacking you? MR LELEKI Joe Jordan. MR SANDI Did you know him prior to this? MR LELEKI I just knew him for a short while. MR SANDI Please tell us how you got to know each other and how you met. MR LELEKI MR SANDI You received training as an Unkonto Wezizwe soldier is that so? MR LELEKI Yes. MR SANDI You came back and found out that Jordan was helping with accommodation, could you elaborate please. MR LELEKI MR SANDI What organisation did he belong to? MR LELEKI MR SANDI Please continue. MR LELEKI MR SANDI MR LELEKI MR SANDI He took out a gun? MR LELEKI Yes, he pointed this gun at me and I thought he was just playing around but he said I must lift up my hands which I did. He searched me. Three men... (interrupted) MR SANDI Did he find anything in your pockets? MR LELEKI No, I did not even have a knife. They took me outside. There was a car parked there and they pushed me together with the other two men and said I must be put in the boot of the car. I asked why and refused. MR SANDI These men were helping Joe? MR LELEKI Yes. MR SANDI Where were they from? MR LELEKI MR SANDI What were they hitting you with. MR LELEKI They hit me with a baton twice on my chest but they did not stab me. I stayed there the whole night. It was a Saturday. The following morning at about between eight and nine a man who stayed in Senate Park saw me and asked what was going on. I told him that it was Joe who did this to me and I asked him to call an ambulance. I tried to crawl but it was too difficult. This man was standing next to me and he saw another Comrade coming. MR SANDI Do you know his name? MR LELEKI MR SANDI Chris who? MR LELEKI Chris Hani. I got out of hospital on the day that he was buried. I came back to the township. After that ... (interrupted) MR SANDI Excuse me Mr Leleki what did the doctor diagnose? MR LELEKI MR SANDI I asked who were you talking to. MR LELEKI I was talking to myself that I was going to the office to report what these people had done to me these people who were referred to as Comrades. MR SANDI Which office? MR LELEKI MR SANDI When you met with Joe at the offices did he give evidence as to why he said that you were an informer? Were the others not there? MR LELEKI MR SANDI MR LELEKI MR SANDI Did he again say that you worked together with the police? MR LELEKI Yes, he said I went to him carrying an Uzzi and he said that he was able to disarm me. I asked him where that Uzzi was and I told him that he would not have been able to disarm me. MR SANDI In conclusion you would like Joe to clarify why he is accusing you of such? MR LELEKI MR SANDI MR LELEKI Yes, that is all. MR SANDI Thank you Mr Leleki. Thank you Mr Chairman. REV FINCA MR LELEKI Yes, Sir. REV FINCA MR LELEKI I only know Joe Jordan. He would list these people. REV FINCA Had they covered their faces? MR LELEKI REV FINCA Why do you think he was hired? MR LELEKI Because he did not look hard hearted and he was also asking me what was going on. REV FINCA Would you be able to identify him? MR LELEKI REV FINCA REV FINCA I decided to come here alone. REV FINCA Thank you, we welcome you Mr Jordan we request that you give us your full names. MR JORDAN Tetinene Wadsworth Sipho Jordan. REV FINCA MR TETINENE WADSWORTH JORDAN (sworn states) REV FINCA MR JORDAN REV FINCA Excuse me Mr Jordan Noxhawe, and Subu do you know their surnames? MR JORDAN When I tried to intervene I was at a distance and the gun was with me. I said Smu you are going to take me home because there is a conflict now. The gun was with me and he did not hesitate, Smu did not hesitate. I understood that he had no firearm with him and I said that he must drive the car I had a gun with me. When I was about to get into the car I took out a magazine and I gave it to the others so that if he comes back to these others he must not come back with a gun taken from me with bullets. Smu took me home. The following day between half past seven and eight a man by the name of Xhaxha came he said there is a person accusing you of injuring him together with the people you were with and he said let us go and see this person. We went there and when I got there, there was an ambulance and he was being taken by the ambulance to the hospital. He then took me back home. The office of the Regional Command sent a message that I was supposed to be in the office. I now hope that the people who are present will understand that if they have a problem with me there is only one channel and that is to go to the Truth Commission. That is what I think. REV FINCA Thank you, Mr Jordan I have only one question for you. The question is, the people you were with in the car, are they still alive? MR JORDAN REV FINCA The four people who were in the car, the one you know as Smu. MR JORDAN I knew two people Leleki and Smu. REV FINCA In other words Smu will be able to come and testify on this matter. MR JORDAN Smu visited my twice with Leleki in my home. Those were the two people I knew in that car. When they got into the home they were both coming form Uhmlazi and the other two said they were coming from Uhmlazi and they were working in his Unit in Durban. REV FINCA MR JORDAN REV FINCA Mr Sandi? MR SANDI Thank you Mr Chairperson. Where is Admiral? MR JORDAN Admiral is still around. MR SANDI What is he doing? MR JORDAN MR SANDI Xhaxha you referred to, do you know his full names? MR JORDAN No, he introduced himself to me as Xhaxha. MR SANDI Did you see him again? MR JORDAN Yes, I saw him in Butterworth. MR SANDI The man Mr Leleki referred to that found him lying there, did you meet him? MR JORDAN This is the man who came to pick me up the following morning and when we got there the ambulance was there taking him to the hospital. This man was Xhaxha the one whom I said I met twice in Butterworth. MR SANDI Thank you Mr Jordan. Thank you Mr Chairperson. REV FINCA