hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1997-06-09 EAST LONDON 1 MRS NOBANTU IDA TSHANGANA / EC188/96 ELN EC210/96 ELN EC396/96 ELN https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55241&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/hrvel2/elntshan.htm REV FINCA MISS MAYA Thank you, Mr Chairperson. I am going to the read the names of witnesses we requested to appear here to-day to give evidence in this Truth and Reconciliation Commission. This is the order. In this list we have people from East London and Mdantsane. Nine are connected to the bus boycott and six were oppressed or assaulted outside the Republic of South Africa. I am going to read the witnesses names, the place that the person is from and the year that the incident took place. Nomhase Nkenke will be speaking about Bongani Nkenke who was murdered in East London in 1992. Landile Jongile will be speaking about himself. He was tortured. Nobantu Tshangana will be speaking about Cifi Tshangana - attempted murder. Nozipho Xofa will be speaking about herself - attempted murder. Zingisile Mhlanga will be speaking about himself - attempted murder. Francis Njoli will be speaking about himself - attempted murder. Maki Michael Mose will be speaking about Lyuanda Eric Mose who disappeared at that time. Lindiswa Ngwenya will be speaking about herself - attempted murder. Nomazizi Gangala will be speaking about Diliza Gangala who was killed. Temba Faku will be speaking about Sisal Faku who was murdered. That is all concerning the Mdantsane bus boycott. The following were tortured outside the Republic of South Africa: Michael Ndaliso will be speaking about Julia Ndaliso who was murdered. Excuse me, this is also in connection with the bus boycott. Thembakazi Tuku will be speaking about Thembisile Tuku who was murdered in Botswana in 1986. David Gobizembe will be speaking about himself. He was severely ill-treated in 1984. Linda Sophia Tonisi will be speaking about Masibulele Maxwell Tonisi who was murdered in Angola. Nokuzolangcai Koliti will be speaking about Tamsanqa Walter Koliti who was murdered in Tanzania. Mbongeni Nicholas Bam will be speaking about Sipho Bam who was also murdered in Lesotho. That is all Mr Chairperson. Thank you. REV FINCA Thank you Miss Maya. We request that Mr Ngikelana, who is one of the leaders of the day, give us the background of what was happening in the community at that time so that we can put this hearing in perspective and a good context. MR NGIKELANA REV FINCA Please yourself. You are allowed to use any language that you are comfortable with. If you would like to speak English, it is all right however, the majority of the audience will have to get an interpretation device. MR NGIKELANA The UDF as an organization, also had a lot of compassion for the people who used the buses. However, as Trade Unions, we endeavoured to help workers with their problems, especially with the authorities of the day. We received a document which we referred to as a "Twelve Page Document". It was clear that it was written by the Government of the day. This document was to advise workers how they should work with the Unions as well as how they should go about relating, especially to SAWU. In 1980, we started as a Trade Union until the bus boycott. As I mentioned earlier, the Ciskeian Government was not happy about us all and would not treat us well. In 1982, there was an issue within the Ciskeian Government. The Ciskeian Government was considering banning SAWU. The Ciskeian Government of the day perceived SAWU as an organization under the ANC. We clarified it and tried to convince them that we were a Trade Union totally independent of the ANC. The Ciskeian Government would say, we are not just an ANC front but also a communist front. We were committing communist activities within the country. However, we hid nothing. All our policies were out in the open and would be frankly discussed in meetings. Let us again go back to the issue of the boycott. The leaders of SAWU, myself and Ntozi stated clearly that we are no longer going to be the leaders of the boycott campaign because although this affected us, we wanted the workers to take a lead because they were the ones using the bus to Highway and to Westbank. We knew that if we could present this to the workers, the Government would oppress them more. This is when the "Committee of Ten" was formed and were not denying that they were our members. It was formed so that it could consist of the workers and it would give reports to the commuters. That was the way it happened but we cannot ignore the fact that the very same workers and the community at large were looking to SAWU as the leading organization in their struggle of liberation, fighting for the truth. for democracy, non-racialism and for peace. Again I would like to emphasize the aspect of the "Twelve Page Document" because it showed clearly that there were people who planned this but how could they try and stop the struggle of the workers. It became clear during the bus boycott because the workers were fighting for their rights and this was used as an excuse to try and arrest the Union leaders. Unfortunately, it was clear that the Unions recruited some members. They recruited members from Grahamstown and Queenstown and they never failed because people accepted them as the Unions for the workers. I already mentioned what happened to us as the leaders of the Unions and what happened before that. I think that these were things that led to the anger and the oppression of the people. They were treated like animals. There are things that I would like to mention which happened afterwards. We were talking about reconciliation and as a South African, I would like to present this so that there can be reconciliation in this country. There was something happening. There were things about the civil claims of the people who were shot. Some were working in their homes and they got shot or they would get beaten. They would go the Court of Law, hire lawyers and their lawyers would get arrested when they were supposed to appear in court and their case would be dismissed. People were forced to pay huge amounts of money. I would like these things to be taken note of because this happened because of the bus issue. There are also rumours that there were people who were buried in the gate at night. I would like to ask the Commission to try and persuade the people who were working at the time, to come forward to the Commission to tell us what happened at that time. If these people would come forward, there would be reconciliation in this country. The companies came here to invest money but because the Trade Unions were oppressed, the companies were told not to invest their money in the Border area as the Trade Unions were highly militant. We tried to negotiate this, telling them that we would like them to come and invest their money here, that here would be strikes but where the Trade Unions were involved, they would try to negotiate and resolve the issue. We would like the countries which gave permission to the companies to come to this country to invest money, to come forward and invest their money because there is poverty in this region. If that can happen, there would be reconciliation. Again Mr Chairperson, I think the Public Works programme has a job to do for those people who lost their jobs because they were fighting for liberation. We are in poverty but we know that we sacrificed our jobs because we were trying to fight for liberation. In the Social Security, we know that the Government does not have enough money but we would like it to help as some of us were injured because of such incidents. These people were in the struggle and although they were injured, they continued to fight for the liberation. There was an issue regarding the "black listing". I remember that elderly people from Robben Island could not get jobs and this also reflected on the workers. When a worker organized other workers in the company, trying to fight for their rights, they would be seen as an enemy. We want such "black lists" to be brought forward. We would like the names of those who were "black listed" to be mentioned because they were members of the Trade Unions and we want all the companies and business people to come forward publicly to clearly state that they will not use that "black list" again. If a company is found to be using that "black list", it would be punished because that "black list" consisted of those people who were sacrificing their lives so that we could be liberated in this country. We cannot leave these people alone, Mr Chairperson. REV FINCA We thank you for the background you presented to us and we thank you for giving us a picture regarding the link between the big businesses and the Government as well as the past regime. You answered a question which was in my mind and that is, would there be a full reconciliation if those who were perpetrators at the time, came and clarified this matter to us so that we can accept what was happening and forgive them. You have made a very clear call at the big business to-day but if we are going to build on a solid foundation for the future, the past history needs to be exposed, acknowledged and forgiven. REV XUNDU Mr Chairperson, may I swear them in? I will start with Nobantu Tshangana. MRS NOBANTU TSHANGANA (sworn states) REV XUNDU Thank you. Nozipho Xofa? MRS NOZIPHO XOFA (sworn states) REV XUNDU Zingisile Mhlanga? MR ZINGISILE MHLANGA (sworn states) Thank you, Mr Chairperson. They have been properly sworn in. REV FINCA Mr Sandi? MR SANDI Thank you, Mr Chairperson. We will start with Mrs Tshangana. Mrs Tshangana, without going into detail about the background of this incident because Mr Ngikelana has already done this, you are going to talk about your husband. What is his name? MRS TSHANGANA Cifi. MR SANDI Was he shot in Mdantsane? MRS TSHANGANA Yes, he was shot on the fourth of August. MR SANDI Before we talk about his shooting, could you briefly tell us about your husband Cifi Tshangana? Was he working? MRS TSHANGANA Yes, he worked at Botha Bus Company. MR SANDI Would he use a bus to commute? MRS TSHANGANA No, he would use a train because he came from Fort Jackson. MR SANDI MRS TSHANGANA He was going to work. MR SANDI Can I hand over to you, Mrs Tshangana to tell us about this incident, without interrupting you? MRS TSHANGANA He got up in the morning to go to work. We heard the sound of bullets. He went to work and as he was walking in our street, he came across police vans. The police accosted them, saying that they should not walk any further. The police just shot at them and he lost his leg. Our neighbours called an ambulance but when it came it was chased away. He was put in a car where there were corpses and taken to hospital. He was then released from hospital after staying in the hospital for about three months. I had a one year old child and I then had to go and look for a job because nobody was working. I got a job and as we were working we were arrested by the South African Government of the day. I paid money to an attorney, Clark, who was helping us but I could not afford to continue paying. People came to take our furniture in order to pay the attorney off. MR SANDI What workers are you talking about? Are you talking about SAWU? MRS TSHANGANA Yes, I am. MR SANDI MRS TSHANGANA Yes. MR SANDI Was this as a result of your present charges against the Government for having shot your husband? MRS TSHANGANA Yes. MR SANDI Did you have a legal representative? MRS TSHANGANA Yes, but Pringle ended up handling our case. Pringle then said we must pay what the Government is requiring us to pay and they would give us the money back. MR SANDI You say that something happened in 1992. MRS TSHANGANA He started suffering from diarrhoea. There was nothing wrong with him but he would just mess himself up. MR SANDI The men who beat him up after he had been shot, was it the police? MRS TSHANGANA It was not the police. It was the Lindikaia Group, security guards. MR SANDI Were these the people who would torture people and the Government would do nothing about it? MRS TSHANGANA Yes. MR SANDI Were the soldiers and the police there? MRS TSHANGANA It is the soldiers that shot the people. MR SANDI Your legal representative, Mr Pringle, what did he say the results of the entire case were? MRS TSHANGANA He said that it was too late and the Ciskeian Government did not have enough financial resources to help us. MR SANDI Did you start paying off the Ciskeian Government as they demanded? MRS TSHANGANA I only paid twice. I paid fifteen rand twice. Maybe it was three times, then I stopped. MR SANDI You would pay fifteen rand a week? MRS TSHANGANA Yes, I would pay fifteen rand a week. MR SANDI Where would you pay? MRS TSHANGANA MR SANDI MRS TSHANGANA I was earning fourteen rand a week. MR SANDI And you had to pay fifteen rand to the Ciskeian Government a week? MRS TSHANGANA Yes. MR SANDI My co-panelists would like to know something. You say that you earned fourteen after you paid this fifteen rand? MRS TSHANGANA MR SANDI Would you pay this fortnightly? MRS TSHANGANA I earned weekly. They required me to pay weekly as well but I could only pay every two weeks. MR SANDI You did not earn enough to pay the fifteen rand weekly? MRS TSHANGANA Yes. MR SANDI MRS TSHANGANA MR SANDI Do you have a request in connection with these children. MRS TSHANGANA If I could b helped to educate these children because I suffer from high blood pressure, I had a stroke and I have a heart ailment. MR SANDI According to your statement Mrs Tshangana, you say this incident of people being shot as a result of the bus boycott, you request in your statement that we should investigate this matter again in order to find out who it was that not only shot him but beat him up as well. MRS TSHANGANA Yes. MR SANDI MR SANDI Miss Xofa? Miss Xofa, according to your statement the incident that you are here for is very similar to the previous witness. The difference is that you are going to talk about yourself. Could you please tell us what happened when you were shot? MISS XOFA The following day I had to go into theatre to be operated on. I thought I was going to die in theatre as I had been ill-treated the previous day. They could not remove the bullet so they left it in my body. Workers organized money for me to be transported to Cape Town for a further examination. Even in the Cape Town hospital I was told that the bullet could not be removed. MR SANDI Were you not treated after that? MISS XOFA MR SANDI You say you had a baby when this happened. How old was the baby? MISS XOFA I was still breast-feeding at the time? MR SANDI How many months? MISS XOF A: My baby was three months old. MR SANDI Who was looking after your baby when you were going in and out of hospitals? MISS XOFA My mother was there to help. MR SANDI Did you go to any attorneys? MISS XOFA We were told by SAWU that there were doctors at the City Hall. We went and gave statements and then we went to Pringle Bax Partnership. They would call us in now and again and it was clear that the case was not proceeding or going anywhere. Then I got a letter from Clarke saying that I have to pay in some money. I realized that I could not pay this money off because I was not working and nor was my husband. After a few months I was arrested and detained for a week. I was then released on a bail of One Thousand, Three Hundred Rand which was paid by my younger sister. MR SANDI Why were you arrested? MISS XOFA I was arrested because I laid charges against the police. MR SANDI How were you released? MISS XOFA I was released on bail. MR SANDI You stayed in for five days? MISS XOFA Yes. MR SANDI So you were out on bail for One Thousand Three Hundred Rand? MISS XOFA Yes. MR SANDI And your sister paid for you? MISS XOFA Yes. MR SANDI Do you not think it an enigma that somebody was shot going to work in a train, gets shot and when this same person, who was the victim of the shooting opens a case with the legal representatives has to pay. MISS XOFA Yes, it is an enigma. MR SANDI Is that all the evidence that you have, Miss Xofa? Do you have any requests in connection with this incident? MISS XOFA What I wish to for is that the perpetrators come forward because we were being shot because the bus fare was increased by five cents. MR SANDI Do you still undergo treatment? MISS XOFA No. When my leg starts aching, I just take tablets. MR SANDI Thank you, Miss Xofa. If you have forgotten anything from your statement, maybe you can speak later. MR SANDI Mr Mhlanga? Mr Mhlanga, on this particular day you were also shot. MR MHLANGA MR SANDI Please tell us, Mr Mhlanga, what happened to you at the time of this incident. MR MHLANGA We were then taken and an ambulance was called to take us to the hospital. The railway soldiers came and they were the ones who called the ambulance from East London. As we were on the other side of the railway station, it was said, were in the land of the Republic of South Africa and those who were on the other side were said to be the Ciskeian people. The soldiers from East London called an ambulance to take us to East London. We were taken to the Frere hospital. I stayed there for a week before being discharged. I then went back to work. The workers advised me to go to a lawyer in Highway, a Mr Sewisa to give a statement. MR SANDI Excuse me, Mr Mhlanga, before going to the case of the lawyer, for how long did you stay in hospital? MR MHLANGA When I was discharged after that one week I was told to go back for an operation. I then went back for an operation and I stayed in Frere hospital for four weeks. MR SANDI You went to meet with the lawyer in Highway? MR MHLANGA MR SANDI Mr Mhlanga, let me ask you again about your arm. You said that your arm got injured and as a result of that you cannot do certain things with your arm. Can you please elaborate on that? What were the thing you used to do with your arm which you cannot do now because of the injury? MR MHLANGA As a person who was working at a certain workshop, we had to lift heavy equipment but to-day I cannot lift any heavy equipment because of the injury. I had to get help from someone else. I used to love my job but because of this I could not do the same things. MR SANDI As a father at home, you cannot do certain jobs. Can you cannot lift heavy furniture. MR MHLANGA I can lift a chair with my two arms but if I try to lift the chair with my injured arm, I feel pain. MR SANDI You made some requests Mr Mahlanga, at the time you gave your statement. Do you still remember your requests? MR MHLANGA MR SANDI Would you like to be compensated? MR MHLANGA MR SANDI Thank you Mr Mhlanga. I will now hand over to the Chairperson. Thank you Mr Chairperson. REV FINCA June Crichton? MS CRICHTON MR MHLANGA I was working for Johnson and Johnson and it was my second year with them. There was a coal boiler and we working in this section of coals. We would take a trolley full of coal and throw it in a certain place. This is when I found out that I had difficulty, although this might happen after an hour, as a person working eight hours a day I would feel pain when I was trying to lift these coals. MS CRICHTON Mr Mhlanga I would like to ask you as well, what happened as far as your injury was concerned? How did the firm handle that? What was their response? MR MHLANGA MS CRICHTON Did you resign or did they ask you to leave? MR MHLANGA I did not resign but in 1984 there were certain people who were chosen, those who worked for the company for less than five years. I was one of those people. MS CRICHTON Thank you, Mr Mhlanga. MR MHLANGA Thank you. MS CRICHTON Could I speak to Miss Xofa now please. Miss Xofa can you hear me? MISS XOFA Yes. MS CRICHTON I want to ask you the same question that I asked Mr Mhlanga. Did you hear it in English or not? The question was, what was the name of the firm or where were you working when this incident happened to you? MISS XOFA I worked for Johnson and Johnson. We worked together. MS CRICHTON How was the matter dealt with, with yourself? MISS XOFA We lost our jobs. MS CRICHTON Was it after the same period of time? The same as Mr Mhlanga, after a few years? MISS XOFA We lost our jobs together in 1984. MS CRICHTON How long had you worked there? MISS XOFA Four years. MS CRICHTON Thank you, Mr Chairman. REV FINCA Mrs Eunice Xofa, you talked about an amount of One Thousand, Three Hundred that you had to pay for bail for having laid charges against the Government. What was this money all about? MISS XOFA REV FINCA MISS XOFA Yes. REV FINCA Did your legal representatives do anything about this? MISS XOFA No. They said they did not know what it was all about. REV FINCA Did they stand against this as legal representatives? MISS XOFA No, because I was arrested at the end of it all. REV FINCA MRS TSHANGANA Yes. REV FINCA MRS TSHANGANA I only received one. REV FINCA And Miss Xofa? MISS XOFA REV FINCA Could you furnish us with a copy of this letter. MISS XOFA Yes, it is with the Truth and Reconciliation Offices in town. REV FINCA I thank the three of you. You may step down.