hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1996-09-04 NELSPRUIT BEAUTY MKHAJWA MTHETHWA 1094 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55290&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/hrvnel/mtheth1.htm CHAIRPERSON Mamma, can you hear me? Mamma, before I ask Mr Lewin to help you with your story, I am going to ask him to ask you to take the oath, please. MR LEWIN Mamma, if you could stand? Thank you. BEAUTY MKHAJWA MTHETHWA (sworn states). MR LEWIN Thank you. Mrs Mthethwa, we would like to welcome you and thank you for coming. The story you have to tell us is a very particularly strong one. I think the best is just to explain that it was based in Bosfontein. We are going back to the time of 1986 which over the last two days we have heard have been very tough times in this area. If you could please relax and in your own time, your own words, tell us what happened. Thank you. MRS MTHETHWA Thank you very much. I thank the Commission that they visited us here at Umpumalanga at Nelspruit. As I look at the Commission today I see as if I see the family members of my husband. What I will explain to the Commission here is that in 1986 on the 1st of June, my husband was killed. But my husband was killed by people who claimed to be comrades of the very same place of Bosfontein where I am from. Those comrades they came to my house while I was sleeping. It was during the morning. When they came they were just big numbers, they were coming behind the houses, some in front of the houses, on all sides. Some with sjamboks, some with stones and they entered our houses. NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA 2 MTHETHWA When they entered our home they found that my husband wasn't there. From the morning my husband wasn't there, he went to the meeting for the water project. Because yesterday, the day before it was announced that there would be a meeting for the water because we had a problem with water in the area. My husband went to attend that meeting where there was the water meeting. When these comrades came to my home they found out my husband wasn't there. Only myself and the children were there. One of the comrades came to me direct. He said to me where is your husband. I answered him and I said I don't know. I was sitting during that time. I was shivering. I was seeing many peope coming to our home, some with sjamboks, stones and sticks. I had to sit down. One of them came to me and questioned where my husband is. I said I don't know. They entered our houses. They beat everything, they opened even the tanks. My husband was a farmer. They destroyed everything, the mealies and they therefore went out of the house. After that the following morning, they said they wanted the boys, they do not want to tell us where they were going to. Then they encouraged members of the committee to come to the school. As they were going out they were going to hunt my husband. They also take my child, my boy with them. They told him that they are looking for my husband, they want my child to see what they are going to do to my husband. On their way they got a car. They were stopping all the cars on their way. They stopped one of the cars there. They went to the place where my husband worked. They got him there. They met him on the way when he was coming to our home. They took him with them to the car, together with his bicycle. They went on with him. They travelled with him to the school where the NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA 3 MTHETHWA meeting was held. They did not bring him to our home. My child was also there. Then they arrived in the time while the meeting was held. There was also some of the others also like my husband. They placed them there. The other two husbands too. The three of them were down there. As they were there they tied their hands and their legs. Our children were being beaten and were instructed just to look. After that they throw petrol on their bodies. After finishing (indistinct) were dirty (indistinct). After that they took a match and my husband was given this match to lit to set alight. What my husband said, if I am guilty to somebody he must set me alight, I have not committed suicide. If I am guilty because of offences you must kill me. My husband was set alight and burnt. The others were set alight too. Those people they are here today. The three husbands were killed. After they had murdered the group left. On their way my child came. When my child came it was shouting me, I was also angry and shivering and I was hugging my child. I could hear that my child was suffering. He said to me my father has been killed. I therefore decided that I need to go and give myself to them, so that they can come and kill me too. I went to my house and stayed there. We are all afraid that they are going to come and kill us. They killed my husband, what about myself and children. From thereon we were sitting. I therefore decided that it is better to go and report this to our relatives. The whole day those people were still there. I mean, those who were dead there were still lying there. When I came back and some of the relatives, they still sat with my husband. During the night we went there to the corpse. When we arrived there there were dogs. The dogs were busy eating. NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA 4 MTHETHWA We took the corpse, I took my husband and the other corpses were still lying. They only took the corpse of my husband. The dogs were busy eating them. They took the corpse up to our home. In the morning the policeman came by the name of Mr Mahlela from Durban(?) police station. When Mr Mahlela arrived they took the corpse to Komatipoort police station where they checked how the damage was. When they arrived in Komatipoort they did search the corpse. After that they took the corpse to the Mangweni mortuary. From that mortuary that's where we were given permission to take the corpse. Then we had to buy the coffin so that we can take the corpse with us to our home. When the funeral was to be held then people were intimidated not to attend the funeral. I can remember now (indistinct) there used to be a night vigil so that the people can come, but people were intimidated not to come. We had to go and bury them. After the funeral the police investigated into the matter. The case was in Nelspruit magistrate court. It took a very long time because this happened in 1986. It took a very long time for the case to be attended to. Those people were charged and they were given 12 years sentence in prison. But they didn't stand the trial yet. When the President was inaugurated, then those people were released. What is really upsetting me, why I am here present today, because I am having children and they are still attending school. I don't know how am I going to pay for them. The other one is Std 10, the other one is St 9, the other one is still Std 5, the other one is in Std 1. It was painful for me. I feel very much happy when I am here to explain myself to the Commission. Thank you very much. MR LEWIN Mrs Mthethwa, thank you very much too for telling us your story, which is a very terrible one for us NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA 5 MTHETHWA to hear. There are just some points that I would have liked to have asked about so that we get a full picture. I would like to ask how many children you now have, to start with. MRS MTHETHWA I have got nine children. MR LEWIN And they are all with you now still. MRS MTHETHWA Yes, they all live with me. MR LEWIN Could I take you back to that day in June 1996, when you say this large group came to your house, and ask if you at that stage recognised any of the people who were there. MRS MTHETHWA The people at that place - if I can be protected I can give their names, I can reveal their names. MR LEWIN Could I ask this, were they the three people in particular that you mentioned, were they the ones who were sent to jail in 1987? MRS MTHETHWA They are still alive. MR LEWIN And they are the ones who went to jail? MRS MTHETHWA Yes, they are the ones that went to jail. MR LEWIN Then could I, the one puzzling thing which you can explain to us, you mention in your statement that the meeting was called by the comrades, or whom you call the alleged comrades, to discuss the problem of withcraft. Now this is something which is usually associated with women not with men. Could you explain why it was that your husband and the two others were actually accused of withcraft, and what do you think what was behind the accusation? MRS MTHETHWA My husband was a farmer, he used to farm. He used to get agricultural products. The question why my husband was successful, he must be killed because he is a witch. MR LEWIN But could I ask, did they say that he was NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA 6 MTHETHWA successful because he was a witch or did the witchcraft come out of something else? MRS MTHETHWA I didn't see the results of witchcraft. What I know he was a farmer, he was working very hard. What I know is that I didn't see anything relating to witchcraft. MR LEWIN And these other two, Mr Mabela James and Mr Sibose who were also killed at the same time, were they also farmers? MRS MTHETHWA They were also farmers, Mr Sibose was also a farmer, he was busy gardening and also had farms, they were all farmers. MR LEWIN And were they also successful farmers? MRS MTHETHWA Yes, they were successful. Mr Sibose was next to the, was farming next to the river, he was just there quite busy. MR LEWIN I mean you would not have called your husband a witch? MRS MTHETHWA We were surprised why they say they are witches, because they were farmers. My husband was selling the goods and was new in his farm. MR LEWIN So when they were taken to the Mhlaba primary school, your husband and these other two, was there any sort of a trial by the comrades? MRS MTHETHWA There wasn't any case, they did not lay any charge against them. They did not even enquire anything to them. They did not even explain what they sought. They just took them to the meeting to kill them. MR LEWIN So when your husband said if I am guilty, let him set me alight, he says I am guilty. What do you think he was referring there to, of guilt? MRS MTHETHWA He meant because he was innocent. NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA 7 MTHETHWA MR LEWIN And what do you think they found that he was guilty of? MRS MTHETHWA I think it was because he was a farmer, that's why he was guilty as far as the committee is concerned, because they were not in committee with them, he was not a match. MR LEWIN And then at the, you mentioned the post-mortem after the bodies were taken to the Komatipoor police station. What was the result of the post-mortem, what did they find? MRS MTHETHWA They were burnt. The death certificate, we do have them, it is recorded there that they were burnt, even the insides were burnt, you could not see them. MR LEWIN And then at the funeral when you say people were told not to come to the funeral, were they told by the same people who had carried out the burning? MRS MTHETHWA They were told by the very same comrades. Those who used to go and announce and tell people not to attend the funeral. Although people wanted they were intimidated, they could not attend it because they submitted they might also be killed. They also thought that when they attended they are going to be killed. MR LEWIN And have you been able to carry on with farming since that time? What have you been doing the last 10 years? MRS MTHETHWA I am not working, I didn't. MR LEWIN How have you managed to keep your nine children alive? MRS MTHETHWA The social workers used to help me, they give me anything special, but when I sent the children to school the social workers can no longer assist me. I even fail to NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA 8 MTHETHWA pay at that time. What I enjoy at home is food from the social workers. MR LEWIN And could I ask if you know of any similar incident which took place around you at that time? We are talking about 1985/1986. MRS MTHETHWA I don't know. MR LEWIN Mrs Mthethwa, you have told us with very great courage about what happened. How do you feel now? Ten years later, how do you feel? MRS MTHETHWA I feel I am suffering now. I feel I am suffering, because I am wondering here if the social workers are not helping me, it is very difficult. I do not have the correct home, no more to build for me. I have very much hatred. MR LEWIN And what about the people who are now still around that you know were responsible? How do you feel about them? MRS MTHETHWA I have got, it is very difficult, I don't know, I just look at them. I just look at them. MR LEWIN But they don't threaten you now? MRS MTHETHWA No, they do not threaten me. MR LEWIN Because I think it has taken great courage for you to come and tell us the story and I think that some of the other commissioners might like to ask you other questions. But I would like to thank you. Thank you very much. CHAIRPERSON Mr Malan? MR MALAN Mrs Mthethwa, you say that the people that called the meeting on witchcraft consisted of a group of men and older boys. Were any of the men found? MRS MTHETHWA I really can't say, because when they come to NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA 9 MTHETHWA our house I was also afraid. I didn't concentrate on them, I was also afraid, I was very much afraid. MR MALAN So you don't remember who they were? These men. MRS MTHETHWA Those who were sent to prison? The meeting was convened by the boys, the comrades. Those are who invited all the people to come. MR MALAN The three that went to prison, were they comrades or were they some of the older men? MRS MTHETHWA They were comrades. MR MALAN What did they perceive to be the problem? If they accused somebody of witchcraft, usually they experience some problems themselves. What was their problem? MRS MTHETHWA They were fighting for their parents, because they were (indistinct), because my husband was a successful farmer. MR MALAN And their parents were unsuccessful. Is that what you are saying? MRS MTHETHWA That's as far as my opinion is concerned. I imagine that is why my husband and the three were killed. MR MALAN Thank you. That to me explains something. Can you tell me about the comrades, the group of comrades at the time. What was their activity, what was their organisation's activity, what did they do or did they just call themselves comrades? MRS MTHETHWA They used to call them comrades. MR MALAN What did they do in the township or in the area at Bosfontein? MRS MTHETHWA When this thing started, it started with us. They turn to the whites to come and intervene, because these things go together, if the whites did not come and intervene, it was just the comrades in our area, then they NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA 10 MTHETHWA were taken to jail. MR MALAN Mrs Mthethwa, thank you very much. It was a terrible experience and I am sure you are reliving that every day. There is really nothing I can say but it is a horrible story and thank you for sharing that, we know, it must have been painful. Thank you, madam Chair. MS MKHIZE Thank you. (Not translated). MRS MTHETHWA Usually there used to be a meeting, usually those who had intended to attend that meeting. MS MKHIZE Is it possible that because your husband distanced himself from these meetings that it caused some discontent with these people? MRS MTHETHWA Actually the people who usually attended were the boys. My boys would not stay at home. They used to stay at work until the next day and therefore they did not attend that meeting. My boys were not always attending. Another issue that is to look at is the damage what's happened when the father was killed, is that (indistinct) and then the boy. My child has changed greatly. He was affected by the killing of my husband, my husband killed in front of him. He changed his mind. Even now he doesn't have a friend in the area. He can't even talk. MS MKHIZE How did the boy change? MRS MTHETHWA Maybe if the child was at school he could continue. My child was working. Because he realised that he was not to attend the school, he has to look after the family and he must look after them, and to get a friend he is afraid, and the other two were also attending school. When they were attending school they were instructed not to retun. MS MKHIZE We realise that really this is affecting you NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA 11 MTHETHWA so much. In your view what could the Commission do to assist you? How can we also help your child so that he can healed. MRS MTHETHWA I do not understand. MS MKHIZE Can you think of anything which we can do maybe in the community of Bosfontein, that we can try to heal or help the child. MRS MTHETHWA No, I don't know, I don't know if maybe you can meet with them and that they come out and apologise. Maybe that can help us. They never came to talk about the issue, they never came to us and apologize. MS MKHIZE Is there anything which maybe is traditional which you feel we can do or can offer help for your family, because during the funeral they were very much hurt. MRS MTHETHWA Yes, I also think that my husband who was killed, I didn't understand anything. I also asked God to help me, that even the Christians come with me and then I sit there and talk to them in the manner in which my husband was killed was very bad. MS MKHIZE We are here with some of the pastors. If they can come and visit you at home to maybe help you (indistinct), to suggest what can we do to help you get better. In other words, those boys who are here, (indistinct), that can help. MRS MTHETHWA Yes, that can help me. MS MKHIZE Thank you very much. CHAIRPERSON Mamma, I am just going to ask you a few questions. You say in your evidence that a group of men and older boys called this meeting, and in your evidence you called them comrades. Now did you know them as comrades? MRS MTHETHWA They were comrades, because I saw them NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA 12 MTHETHWA handling sjamboks and that was during the time for struggle. CHAIRPERSON Were these comrades affiliated to the ANC or to the UDF? MRS MTHETHWA I heard them saying they were from ANC. CHAIRPERSON Was your husband and the other three men, the other two men who were burnt ... MRS MTHETHWA He was a farmer for six hectares. CHAIRPERSON Had that been given to him by the chief? MRS MTHETHWA Yes, from the chief. CHAIRPERSON The men who had called this meeting, did they also own any farms? MRS MTHETHWA They had some plots as everybody, like everybody. CHAIRPERSON So this land in the Bosfontein community had been allocated equally to everybody? MRS MTHETHWA I didn't know, the farm I have formed specially, farm 6. Those who are having a long hand in family and who are (indistinct) they have got at least six hectares. Those who are late living in the area they got just four, they are farmers. CHAIRPERSON Mamma, before this meeting, had there been trouble between these people in Bosfontein about the land or about the farming of that land? MRS MTHETHWA There wasn't such a conflict, there was nothing at all. CHAIRPERSON Was your husband very good at his farming? You have mentioned that on that particular day when they were looking for him, he had gone to attend a meeting in a water project. Who was running that project? MRS MTHETHWA It was conveyed by the community and the chief. It was to talk about the water problem. NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA 13 MTHETHWA CHAIRPERSON Was your husband perhaps seen as belonging to, or being a follower of the chief? MRS MTHETHWA No, he was not supporting the chief. They were inviting only those who by the problem of the passage of water. He wasn't anything, he was an ordinary man. CHAIRPERSON Was there ever any problem between the comrades and the chief in that area? MRS MTHETHWA No, there wasn't a problem. Even the teachers themselves (indistinct), because they weren't aware. CHAIRPERSON Was the chief not invited to this meeting that they had to discuss the problem of witchcraft? MRS MTHETHWA No, he wasn't invited. CHAIRPERSON So the decision was taken by a senior group of people? MRS MTHETHWA I don't know what to say. The decision, I cannot know who took such a resolution. I can't know who took that resolution. CHAIRPERSON Mamma, after you had buried your husband, did the chief call a meeting in your community to discuss why this had happened? MRS MTHETHWA No, the chief never convened a meeting. The people who were (indistinct), they even sent soldiers to intervene and make peace in the community. The soldiers were responsible. CHAIRPERSON Mamma, what happened to all the land? Do you still farm that land? MRS MTHETHWA The land (indistinct) and I have got no work like my husband. CHAIRPERSON So yourself don't benefit from the farming on that land? NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA 14 MTHETHWA MRS MTHETHWA I am ploughing, I just cause (indistinct). CHAIRPERSON Mamma, your story is a very, very sad one, and we are very disturbed to hear the story. We know that many of these ugly things happened in our communities and we hear your request that at least, if these people were to be with you and explain why they had done this, you might find some peace. We in the Commission will investigate the matter and we will see what we can do about that. We thank you for sharing your story with us, and we feel with you in your sorrow. MRS MTHETHWA Thank you very much.