hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION HEARINGS 1996-10-08 KAROO 2 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55335&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/karoo/ct00381.htm CASE NO: CT/00381/KAR VICTIM: NCAMISILI SONAMZI VIOLATION: SEVERE ASSAULT - DETENTION TESTIMONY BY: NCAMISILE SONAMZI MS BURTON Can you - can you hear me well Mr Sonamzi. MR SONAMZI Yes. MS BURTON Please will you stand to take the oath. NCAMISILI STANLEY SONAMZI duly sworn states MS BURTON Thank you - will you please sit down. Mr Sonamzi you are the last of our witnesses from Hanover to talk to us this afternoon. We welcome you - you are going to tell us how you were involved in opposing the actions of informers and then later you were yourself branded as an informer. Please tell us your experiences before this happened and then after you were arrested what happened. MR SONAMZI I will ask this Commission of truth I need an opportunity to tell the truth because if I were to lie, I will be putting on fire this whole region. I am not going to talk about all the hurt that I have gone through here - I am going to talk first of all about my arrest - my having been detained in 1985. It was on a Monday on the 15th of September the previous day on the 14th of September on a Sunday, we had been waiting for a meeting to commence, waiting for men from Cape Town. Before they arrived there were people toi-toiing in the streets. I was then on the platform as I was addressing a meeting. When I look out the window - I saw - I looked at the group that was toi-toiing -my brother was there, I realised that his - there is something wrong from his - the back of his head downwards. I then left to go and see what was happening. I took him to come to the meeting with me. I told - I requested - I requested to the attendants of the meeting to let me go and take my brother to hospital. I left for De Aar as I was going to the hospital. At the hospital I asked Dr Muller even though my brother was not in a serious condition - but I requested and insisted that he be admitted at the hospital because the police at Hanover were not worthy of trust at the time. I knew what was going to happen the following evening. I came back to Hanover, when I got here - as we were coming through the gate we - then there were a lot of old cars - when I got home - as I walked inside, there was a Hippo driven by police that was driving past my house, but they threw tear gas into my house as they drove past. I did not sleep at home that night, I asked if I could sleep at next-door - at our next-door neighbours house. I then asked our next-door neighbour to put me in a wardrobe and lock me in should the police come. But I told her that I would sleep on the floor of her room before the police had come - I will sleep with my clothes on. This police came to this - to our neighbours house with little boys that stayed at my home. I ran into the wardrobe as planned. I heard the police asking my brothers where Bernard Sonamzi is - where Stanley Sonamzi is. I asked my mother to go to the reverend to call a meeting for the executives - after the meeting they should call me so that we can have another meeting to talk about our problems at Hanover. My mother then called me as planned. We went to the church building, a while after we had arrived there were police surrounding the building, they were hitting the windows with sjamboks - they came in saying they want to see both the reverend and I at the police station. We asked them to give us a bit of time so that we can solve our problems as the community. They said they were giving us half an hour. They then left, I asked the executive members for 15 minutes, I said then we should go to the police station. It was at about nine. We were there at the police station discussing and talking until six. We were asked a question at the police station - I wonder if those policeman that asked me that question would repeat that question today. They asked us if we would see a terrorist would we go to the police station and report that we have seen a terrorist and this is how I answered - I said I do not know what a terrorist is. I do not know what they do - but if a terrorist is someone who would endanger my life, I would go to the police. The Security Branch people would come and interrogate us from day to day, reverend Dini would ask at Middelburg - the reverend asked the police if there is peace now that we have been arrested. They said yes there is peace and quite now that you not there, I then said you are lying. I told them that if there is peace and quite it is because you are being tyrannical because we have not done what the community wants yet. What we wanted is for Mandela to be released so that we could have jobs, we wanted Mandela to be President, we told them that they are going to be employed by Mandela they are going to get their salaries from Mandela. We stayed there for 14 days - I was working at the Development Board at the time. When we came back from Middelburg, I was suspended from work - because this liar a boer that I worked with, he gave a report to the head office saying that I had been arrested, I am not fit to work for the Development Board, I am not worthy - that was in September. In November there was still chaos in Hanover - the police came - Maliti was one of them, they came to arrest us yet again and there were six of us this time. They took us to the Richmond prison - we stayed 14 days in Richmond, we came back - we stayed at home. We were busy with our struggle because we wanted our President - we wanted our President to be released. This man said there are a whole lot of - there are a whole lot of policeman at the station from all the wicked places in South Africa, they have now come to kill in Hanover and I was - my name was the first one in the list. I asked a man that was present then - I asked him to drive me to a garage to buy cooldrinks, he drove me there. When we came back from the garage I asked him if we could drive to the police station. I realised that indeed there were a lot of cars. That night I escaped - I then rented a car to drive me to [indistinct] I was still - there was an inquest at work, but I went to [indistinct] I received a telegram in [indistinct] for me to come to - to go to Middelburg. They said they would postpone my case from Middelburg I went back to [indistinct] I was too scared to be in Hanover. I received another telegram saying I must start work back in Hanover. They are the men that said I am an informer. They are the ones that wanted me to be killed in Hanover. I thought they were comrades, I was working with them. I was worthy of trust at work together with them. The day I was attacked in Hanover, a man came towards me saying they have concluded that was the day they were going to kill me. I said to them before they kill me, they must ascertain exactly why they were going to kill me. He then said he does not know the real reason but he cannot go forward and say that I must not be killed because he does not want to be killed together with me. I then called the other men that were involved in the whole plan. I addressed them, I said I heard that you want to kill me today - what I am going to ask of you is that even if you are going to call me tonight, you must call - you must talk to me and ascertain why you killing me and then you can kill me, that did not happen. A man saved my life - [indistinct] Joka he has now passed away. He came into our mist he said if I am an informer, I as Stanley Sonamzi, if - if I am an informer then he should be killed. Because according to him I was not an informer, he protected me and ran away with me - [indistinct] asked me a question what do I think of the police. I said I could not go to the police to lay charges because the previous day they wanted to kill me, today I cannot go to the Hanover police. I cannot lay charges and I cannot go to any South African police station. [indistinct] then said at least I should be taken to the doctor. I was on hiding people were looking for me high and low - the police did have a report that I was going to be killed that day, but they did not do anything about that. I would hear rumours that the police wanted to protect me - I would say that the police must stay out of my life because they want to give the impression that I was working together with them. There is a man Mr Kwindla he arrived at about eleven that night, he stopped his car right in front of the door, so that I could quickly ran into his car without being noticed. They were looking for me even in rubbish bins. He took me to hospital, I drove past the garage to see a man who was the deputy president at the time, I told them that - I told him to inform our President that I had been attacked allegedly I was an informer. And I told him to tell the police that I am not going to liaise with them about this matter, I just want to go to the doctor. On the Tuesday when I woke up at hospital - [indistinct] Nkumbi and [indistinct] Zepo said they heard that I was in hospital. I said reverend I would appreciate it if you would accompany me home and give me support whilst I am inquiring about this matter back home in Hanover. They then left - dr Muller said that he would not release me from hospital before the reverend came back to accompany me home. At the hospital gate I saw people from Hanover, it is the first time they had come to visit me. Amongst them there was a man that [indistinct] Joka went to. This man that was in the crowd would not take me to hospital earlier on, he said that he would not use his car to help an informer, because his car would be burnt down. But these people that were here, had used his car. There was a message apparently from the Reverent, the Reverent apparently was requesting me to go back to Hanover because there had been a mistake. I replied saying the Reverent must wait for me, I will come back. You did not want to drive me to hospital because you said I was an informer, now you want to drive me in the same car back to Hanover, I refuse. I went to De Aar, I - I went and I met other comrades in De Aar [indistinct] helped me to meet these people - [indistinct] said I was not an informer, maybe I would be in the future, but I had not been one yet. On the Sunday we went in a Kombi to Hanover, we stopped at the church, we were waiting for people to come and listen to my side of the story. Amongst the comrades from De Aar, one came to me - a man was pointed out to me. This man was apparently saying I should be killed before the meeting started, therefore I was advised to quickly go inside the building where everybody could see me. The discussions carried on, no-one in the meeting said I am a sell out, they just said I was stubborn. So therefore they were going to kill me for having being stubborn and obstinate. [indistinct] Joka and Minie Williams with whom I worked - the three of us they said we have no respect or manners. I then realised that these people are not killing me for being an informer, but because I am obstinate and because I have no respect. But before I leave, I said I know that there is confusion and chaos in South Africa but one day I want you to tell me exactly why you had intentions of killing me, that is all I have to say right now. MS BURTON You have yourself pointed to the way in which communities were divided and people were affected by the conflict of the time. And clearly that was a very big factor in your life at the time. And we hope that you have had some satisfaction from telling your point of view of the story and if there is anything you would like to ask us to do, please -please do that. MR SONAMZI I request that the Commission - the people that I am - the names I am going to give now that you would call these people - it is four police, I want to talk to them, Maliti, Dick Dick, and two other policeman from Middelburg, one is a Coloured man, and the other a boer. The four of them and Gasmene who is amongst the people here in the hall, together with Dini. I want to sit down with them, I want to talk to them, I want to talk to these people, I want to talk to the police about my life. MS BURTON