hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION HEARINGS 1996-10-08 KAROO 2 CT/1504/KAR SIPHIWE NTSIZAKALO GLADYS NTSIZAKALO SEVERE TORTURE, HOUSE DAMAGED https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55349&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/karoo/ct01504.htm MS BURTON [Indistinct] Noti Mjada and Gladys Ntsizakalo. Please come to the stage and I - if you have other members of your family - they are welcome to come sit with you - in which case we probably need a couple more chairs. Thanks. Thank you. GLADYS NTSIZAKALO Duly sworn states MS BURTON Thank you very much indeed. I am going to Ms Seroke to facilitate your testimonies today. MS SEROKE GLADYS NTSIZAKALO What happened to him is that actually the police were always looking for him. MS SEROKE Why were the police after your son. GLADYS NTSIZAKALO I do not know because when I would ask why they are looking for him - they would not tell me. They would just say they want him. MS SEROKE When you would ask your son - what would you - what would he say. GLADYS NTSIZAKALO He would say he does not know. MS SEROKE How old was he. GLADYS NTSIZAKALO He was fifteen. MS SEROKE What Standard was he doing. GLADYS NTSIZAKALO I think he was doing Standard one. MS SEROKE After they had arrested him - what happened. GLADYS NTSIZAKALO Well they came to look for him the first day. They did not find him. They came again - they did not find, because he used to like sleeping over his friends places. And the third day they found him. They knocked , kicking the doors down. When he would ask what is happening - they just kicked the door down. They used tear gas, they asked where Siphiwe was. It is him that they wanted they said. Everyone by then was awake. Our house was dark because there was tear gas. They found a bucket underneath a bed, because my mother used to use it to urinate. They took this urine and spread it on the bed. They took my son with. He did not come back. In the morning I went to ask what my son had done. I told them I want my child. They said my child is there. I said I wanted to see him. They refuse. When I would ask what my son had done - they would say he has been detained. I went to work. He was detained for two days. On the third day - I would go there frequently because I would take clothing for him and food. They refused to take the food and the clothing. On the third day - the police came to tell me at home that my son is ill. He is mentally disturbed - totally confused. When my mother told them that my son has never been mentally disturbed before - what have you done to him. They said they did not know what is wrong with him and they left. MS SEROKE Had - did they tell you that they are going to take your child to Queenstown before they actually told you. GLADYS NTSIZAKALO No, I did not give them any permission. They just took my child to Queenstown. MS SEROKE How long did your son stay in Queenstown. GLADYS NTSIZAKALO Two months. MS SEROKE When he came back after two months - they took him back to the police station. He stayed in detention. He did not come home. I got a report that he had come back. It was on a Saturday after lunch. I went to the police station and requested - may I see my son. Then a policeman took me to the cell. He was alone in the cell. Both his hands and his legs were tied. When I looked at him as a parent, I realised that he was mentally disturbed. When he saw me - he just cried. I could see that my son had changed. MS SEROKE What hospital was this in Queenstown. GLADYS NTSIZAKALO It was a mental asylum. MS SEROKE When he came back from the asylum he went back to detention. He did not go home. GLADYS NTSIZAKALO No, he did not go home. MS SEROKE When you asked why your son was hand-cuffed - what did they say - when you asked the police why your son was tied. GLADYS NTSIZAKALO I did not ask, because when I saw my child I could not tolerate it. We both just cried. It was painful. MS SEROKE How long did he stay in detention then. GLADYS NTSIZAKALO He stayed a month. MS SEROKE In a cell. GLADYS NTSIZAKALO Yes, in a cell. MS SEROKE So you kept on going to see him. GLADYS NTSIZAKALO Yes, I kept on. Yes, I did until they released him. MS SEROKE So when you took him home - in what manner was he in. Did you ask him exactly what happened. GLADYS NTSIZAKALO When I asked he said they kept on beating him up - they beat him up - that is why he was deranged. They would take a sack - a wet sack - and then they would cover him with that sack. They would put him in the boot - drive him to place that they did not know and then when they reached their destination, they would beat him up. After that they would take him back to the cell. MS SEROKE Where now is your son. GLADYS NTSIZAKALO My son is right here in the hall. MS SEROKE Is there nothing your son can do for himself. GLADYS NTSIZAKALO MS SEROKE But before they detained him - was he all right - was he normal. GLADYS NTSIZAKALO Yes, he was normal. MS SEROKE It is the ill-treatment of the police that caused his derangement. GLADYS NTSIZAKALO Yes. MS SEROKE GLADYS NTSIZAKALO I live. MS SEROKE Do you work GLADYS NTSIZAKALO Yes I work. MS SEROKE Do you have other two children. GLADYS NTSIZAKALO Yes, I do. MS SEROKE Did you endeavour to get a disability grant for Siphiwe. GLADYS NTSIZAKALO Yes, I did try. I went to the Magistrate when I realised that he can never be able to do anything for himself. MS SEROKE Did you get the disability grant. GLADYS NTSIZAKALO Yes I did. MS SEROKE Ms Mjada, please come closer. NOTI MJADA I also got a disability grant. This is the third month. He got R410.00 initially and then the second time he got R420.00 - the third time he also got R420.00. MS SEROKE Ms Ntsizakalo is there something that you would like to say about your son. GLADYS NTSIZAKALO There is nothing I would like to say, because the money that I receive on his behalf - I use to feed him. I do hope that you will get this disability grant until his death. He also has to go for treatment. Thank you. ADV POTGIETER GLADYS NTSIZAKALO After he was detained, he just became a bit crippled. Until it got worse and worse - then the doctors decided to amputate. They first amputated his fingers and then his leg. The problem was with the toes, especially the big toe. ADV POTGIETER [Indistinct] amputation of the leg - did he get that injury in detention. GLADYS NTSIZAKALO It is the big toe - the veins would always be there. ADV POTGIETER His right leg and foot was healthy when he was taken into detention. GLADYS NTSIZAKALO His leg was fine. He always used to play rugby. His leg was normal. ADV POTGIETER GLADYS NTSIZAKALO ADV POTGIETER After he came out of detention. GLADYS NTSIZAKALO He started being ill in prison - in detention. ADV POTGIETER I just want to ask you one final thing - are you working for a Doctor Standard - is that his name or Stander. GLADYS NTSIZAKALO Yes sir, it is his surname. ADV POTGIETER GLADYS NTSIZAKALO It is so sir. ADV POTGIETER And you are talking to - about the son of the lady next to you in fact. Just that the spelling was not right in the statement. Can I ask you perhaps briefly to move the mike to Ms Mjada. ADV POTGIETER GLADYS NTSIZAKALO ADV POTGIETER Thank you Chairperson. MS BURTON We are now going to take a in a minute a short break - just for ten minutes or so to give people a change to stand up and move around but we will ask you first to remain seated and to allow the witnesses to go out to the foyer which I presume is at the back. So will the witnesses now leave the room. You can follow Gail in the red jacket and you are very welcome also to leave the stage. I presume you will go that way. Thank you very much indeed. And we will be back here.