hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION HEARINGS 1996-10-09 KAROO 3 CT/01509/KAR SOLANI GCANGA SONALI GCANGA SEVERE TORTURE AND, DETENTION https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55354&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/karoo/ct01509.htm MS BURTON Good morning. Can everybody hear all right. SOLANE GCANGA Yes we can hear. MS BURTON Mr Gcanga, please will you stand to make the oath. SOLANI GCANGA Duly sworn states MS BURTON Ms Mlauli you are going to be the one speak, is that right. Will you also make the oath then please. Would you stand. MS MLAULI Duly sworn states MS BURTON Please sit down. Is your son also going to speak. Thank you. I will then hand you over to Ms Seroke. MS SEROKE I welcome all of you today and I would like the briefer to switch on the microphone. Thank you. We will start with Mr Gcanga. You both came you all came here, the three of you, because you story is similar. The story of Mr Gcanga and Patrick Galawe. We will start with Mr Gcanga. In your statement you have stated that there were events in Colesberg from the 2 July until the time you arrested and you were tortured. Will you please tell us what happened to you. SOLANI GCANGA It was on the 3 July. It was in the morning. We were toi-toiing. We were toi-toiing from the Apostolic church. While we were still toi-toiing, there is another church, the Methodist church. We left we were a group of people and we left the toi-toi at that time. And all this time they were kicking me, they placed me on top of the Casspir with a sjambok around my neck and around my waist. They were beating me all this time. They told me to toi-toi, because I was toi-toiing. They told me to say Viva and I did all that. They were assaulting me all this time with their sjamboks. All this time this police were beating me and they moved they drove the Casspir to town and I saw two police vans, a brown and a yellow one. They transferred me from the Casspir to the van. They took me to another room, the third room. When I got in that third room, they were boers in that room, the white men. They assaulted me. They were beating me up. They were doing all this dirty work to me. I was taken out of that room, it was late. At about midnight they took me to the garage. When I got in the garage there was a van in that police garage. They took me to the van. They took me inside again. They were beating me and assaulting me all this time and I was naked. They took me to the front door of the police station. It was during the time at that time at about two. My attorney phoned them and told them they must release me and that was when I was released and I went back home. Thank you. MS SEROKE How old were you at this time when the police arrested you? SOLANI GCANGA I was seventeen years old. MS SEROKE What standard were you doing at school? SOLANI GCANGA I was in standard six. MS SEROKE You said that they arrested you because you were toi-toiing. Why were you toi-toiing. What was happening in Colesberg at that time of the 2nd and 3rd of July. SOLANI GCANGA MS SEROKE You decided to toi-toi because they did not answer your demand. SOLANI GCANGA MS SEROKE But these police, they just chased you. SOLANI GCANGA MS SEROKE You say they took you to the Casspir. They hung you from the top. What do you think the reason was for them to do this. What did they want to happen. SOLANI GCANGA MS SEROKE In other words you say that they were showing other people what would happen to them. SOLANI GCANGA Yes, I think so. MS SEROKE You say Chris when he was assaulting you, he accused you of burning his car. Did you do that? SOLANI GCANGA No, I did not burn his car. MS SEROKE Was his car burnt here in Colesberg. SOLANI GCANGA Yes, it was burnt after I was detained. MS SEROKE After you were detained. SOLANI GCANGA Yes, after I was detained. MS SEROKE When they took you out of the Casspir to the van, were you alone at that time or were there any other people who were with you.SOLANI GCANGA When they were assaulting me, I was alone in the van, but when I got to the charge office, there was another guy who was there and I think people of Colesberg did not know that there was another man who was arrested. MS SEROKE Who was that person? SOLANI GCANGA That person is the one next to me, Patrick. MS SEROKE He was there? SOLANI GCANGA Yes, he was also there, but I met him in the police station. MS SEROKE They took you out when you released from the charge office, did you go to any doctor. Were you injured in any way. SOLANI GCANGA Yes, I did go to doctor Moola in De Aar. On the fourth if I am not mistaken. My parents took me to this doctor in De Aar. MS SEROKE When you got better did you lay any charges against Chris and Jansen, the policemen who were assaulting you. SOLANI GCANGA When we came from the doctor, my family decided to make a claim. The police heard that we were laying a charge against them. And what they did, they charged me with public violence. MS SEROKE Were you arrested because they laid a charge against you for public violence? SOLANI GCANGA MS SEROKE Who was your attorney at this time? SOLANI GCANGA It was Mpati from Grahamstown. MS SEROKE And what happened to the police case. Were you charged or what happened?SOLANI GCANGA Yes, I was charged and I was sentenced and my case just disappeared. MS SEROKE SOLANI GCANGA They do know him here in police station where he is, because the police who did this to us in 1985, was still here and the policemen there in the police station, they do know where Jansen is. MS SEROKE Is he still a policeman? SOLANI GCANGA MS SEROKE What are you doing now Solani? MS SEROKE I am just sitting at home doing nothing. MS SEROKE Is it because you cannot work. SOLANI GCANGA Yes, my health is not good. MS SEROKE Please explain. SOLANI GCANGA Since I was beaten up by these men, what happened is that my left eye is blind. My left eye in impaired and I have a problem with my left ear. I cannot hear clearly and my whole body is not functioning well. If the weather is bad, I feel pain in my chest. And my parents tried to take me to different doctors. I do go to doctors now and again. The doctors said my body is damaged. They cannot help me, but what they can is to give me pills now and again to stop pain. MS SEROKE Are you under your parents now. SOLANI GCANGA Yes, my parents are supporting me. MS SEROKE What are they doing now. SOLANI GCANGA They are pensioner, they are both pensioners. MS SEROKE Do you have any other brothers and sisters. SOLANI GCANGA Yes, I do, but they are not living with us. They have their own houses. MS SEROKE Are you married. SOLANI GCANGA No, I am not married. MS SEROKE Do you have any children. SOLANI GCANGA Yes, I do. MS SEROKE How many. SOLANI GCANGA I have two children. MS SEROKE Who supports your children. SOLANI GCANGA MS SEROKE MS SEROKE MARTHA MLAWULI MS SEROKE Please come closer to the mike so that we can hear you. MARTHA MLAWULI The reason why I have to speak for Patrick because even initially I am the one who spoke up for him. Patrick is not well. MS SEROKE What is wrong with him? MARTHA MLAWULI Patrick was ill from very early age, but now he is mentally disturbed. He is mentally disturbed. MS SEROKE MARTHA MLAWULI Patrick then leapt from amongst the police. They had hidden him in the most atrocious way. Patrick then fell. I asked why are you hiding Patrick. What has he done. Why are you treating him like this. Why would he leap only when I banged the counter. This man then said he does not know what Patrick has done. I should go and ask the police in the Casspir. I went back to the township. I accosted the Casspir. I asked the police in the Casspir what police has done. What Patrick had done. I said Patrick is not well, he is not healthy. Please give him back to me. They refused. They said is they would find Patrick in the streets, they would shoot him. MS SEROKE Please just tell us clearly. Had they put Patrick in a locker or what. MARTHA MLAWULI No, Patrick was between the wall and the locker. There was a small space between the wall and the locker. He was all curled up. MS SEROKE Do you think they were trying to hide Patrick from you. MARTHA MLAWULI Yes, they were. They did not want me to know that Patrick is present. MS SEROKE MARTHA MLAWULI I then accosted these police in the Casspir. They refused. I told them Patrick is not very healthy, therefore they should not beat him. They said they would look well after Patrick. But when they went to drink their tea, the would assault him, asking him questions that he does not know anything about. Throughout the night they assaulted Patrick. By the time Patrick got to me, at about twelve, Patrick had marks on his body, a blue eye. I asked Patrick what happened. Patrick said he was going to his friends and when he was close to the Roman Catholic church, a Casspir accosted him. They shot him with a rubber bullet. They then assaulted him. They threw him into a Casspir, driving him to the police station, assaulting him the whole time. They were asking him everything, things that he did not know anything about. They threw him in a van full of blood, splashing him with water. They assaulted even him groin area. There was Chris Lebane next to the van. They assaulted Patrick saying that Patrick is their enemy. MS SEROKE Was Patrick at school at the time. MARTHA MLAWULI Yes, Patrick was at school. MS SEROKE Was he a member of the youth congress. MARTHA MLAWULI MS SEROKE How old was he then. MARTHA MLAWULI He was fifteen. He was in standard two. MS SEROKE He was in standard two. MARTHA MLAWULI Yes, he was. After they assaulted Patrick, they took him out of the van that was full of blood. They detained him. The next day they told him could go home. MS SEROKE Did you try to take Patrick to the doctor. MARTHA MLAWULI When he got home, I was too scared to take him to the doctor, because I thought if he is out in the streets, then they would re-arrest him. I thought a van would be waiting for him somewhere to re-arrest him MS SEROKE SOLANI GCANGA MS SEROKE Were they trying to scare you, saying that this blood belongs to people, people that had been killed. SOLANI GCANGA They were not scaring us, they were giving us facts, because this had happened. I was not there when this happened, but they were telling me facts that they had shot people in the township. MS SEROKE Thank you. ADV POTGIETER [Indistinct] had said that when you were at the police station, you saw Patrick sitting next to you at the police station. Is that correct? SOLANI GCANGA I met Patrick at the police station. That is so. ADV POTGIETER Have you witnessed any assaults on Patrick while you were there at the police station? SOLANI GCANGA Yes, I would meet with Patrick now and again. What they did to Patrick, they had done to me too. ADV POTGIETERNow you say you met him now and then. Did you see any assaults being perpetrated on him or did you see injuries on his body or did he tell you about assaults. What happened? SOLANI GCANGA We were beaten together, assaulted together. ADV POTGIETER [Indistinct] SOLANI GCANGA Yes sir. ADV POTGIETER MARTHA MLAWULI Yes, it is so. I was very scared. ADV POTGIETER That was what was going on at that stage. If you go to a doctor for treatment, you come outside, there is a police van waiting for you. MARTHA MLAWULI That was the situation. ADV POTGIETER MARTHA MLAWULI ADV POTGIETER MS SEROKE Martha, you said Patrick was not healthy, even from an early age. What then happened after all this. MARTHA MLAWULI MS SEROKE Have you tried to get him a disability grant. MARTHA MLAWULI I thought of that and I tried to get it. MS SEROKE Is he on this disability grant. MARTHA MLAWULI Yes, he is. MS SEROKE MS BURTON I just want to ask one question of Mr Gcanga please if you could pass the microphone again. Mr Gcanga I just want to make quite sure that our papers are all correct here. In the written statement that was typed after you made it, it says that you are currently staying at number 12 Phatsha street and then it said Knysna. Is it Knysna or is it Kuyasa or Kayasa? SOLANI GCANGA No, I stay in Colesberg, not in Knysna. MS BURTON [Indistinct] of Colesberg. SOLANI GCANGA In Knysna. MS BURTON No, no is there a township in Colesberg, what is the township where you stay, was the are where you stay. SOLANI GCANGA Kuyasa. MS BURTON [Indistinct] was reading Kuyasa. They read Knysna and typed Knysna by mistake in the statement. So I am just going to correct it. So it will say number 12 Phatsha street, Kuyasa. O.K., thank you. SOLANI GCANGA MS BURTON Yes, I did correct that. Thank you very much. I would just like to say to all of you thank you very much for coming today. Two young men who had a really terrible experience which has affected your lives right through until now and we hope that from now on things will be better for you. That it will have helped you a little bit to talk about your experiences, but we also realise that you need help, that you need to be able to find work or in the case of Patrick to be able to obtain a disability grant and we will see what can be done to help to point you in the right direction. We really are grateful for you for coming today and we just want to ask if there is anything that you want to say finally before you leave. Mr Gcanga you want to add anything. Ms Mlawuli you want to say anything else. MARTHA MLAWULI I have nothing else to say. Thank you very much indeed then. MS BURTON Mr Gcanga you want to say something. SOLANI GCANGA Yes, I have something to say. Can I talk now? I request of the Truth Commission please investigate. I want to know the perpetrators. Again I will request the Truth Commission. My parents have spent a lot of money on me. I go to the doctor. Nobody gives back that money. Could you help me with my treatment with the doctors? Thank you. MS BURTON Mr Gcanga, let me explain that what the Commission is able to do is not in fact give out funds to for instance as you say reimburse your parents for their medical expenses with you. At the end of the procedures, we will write a report which will recommend to the President and the Government steps that should be taken and it would be that some compensation the medical treatment might be one of those steps. SOLANI GCANGA Thank you.