hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION HEARINGS 1996-10-08 KAROO 2 CT/ ALBERT/CHARLOTTE NKUMBI WILLIAM NKUMBI SHOT AND KILLED AND ATTACKED, AND HOUSE WAS DESTROYED https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55365&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/karoo/nkumi.htm MS BURTON Welcome again Mr Nkumbi - you have come to tell us about the death of your brother Albert Nkumbi and also of the experience of your sister Charlotte is she here today. MR NKUMBI No she is not here. MS BURTON Ms Seroke is going to facilitate your evidence. MS SEROKE I would like to greet you Mr Nkumbi - we appreciate that you came here today to tell us what happened to your brother. Is he your older brother or your younger brother. MR NKUMBI My older brother. MS SEROKE Can you please tell us Mr Nkumbi the situation in Hanover at this time - at this time of the riot. MR NKUMBI I thank this opportunity to be here today to come in front of the people to tell my pain to - to express my pain. In 1985 I was a teacher in Phillipstown and in September I terminated my services in Phillipstown, I came back because I got a post here, but unfortunately when I was here, they told me that the post was no longer available. MS SEROKE Sorry what was the post about. MR NKUMBI I told him that he was taking a chance - because he was not suppose to be there, there were comrades all over and I told him that we must leave that place. We came through that Jupiter Street - we left that place, the comrades were there and they chased us. When we approached the church - the street which was near the church we were running through that street. There was [indistinct] Jack together with these people together with another one, they had petrol bombs in their hands. And others were following us - there is an open field near the church - near the hall and there were no houses at that time. Sampson Booysen came and he threw a stone and hit Albert in his left ankle - he collapsed, I tried to help him up but I was unable to do so. Comrades were coming but he could not - he could not stand up because his ankle was painful. [indistinct] Joka came and he told me that I was stabbed in the back, but at that stage I could not feel that. I then decided to run, I made a mistake by running and that was the end of Tozamele because they did what they wanted to do with him. I went to the house and my sister was also stabbed, I went to Mr Jantjies who is a policeman now - he was also afraid and he chased me away from his home. I went through the street and I went to my home. I found my brother there and he was taking [indistinct] to the doctor and he also took me together with them to the doctor. Luckily we found a doctor that day. When we got to the hospital Albert was also there, the van took him to the hospital, they were trying to burn my brother because we could smell the paraffin on his body. And [indistinct] tried to - he took Albert to the hospital but I think 20 - 30 kilometres outside Richmond my brother passed away. We were following with my car but the ambulance came and he took us to the hospital. We told him that no we cannot go there - on that Christmas afternoon in our church we went to church and there was a [indistinct] people were making fun of this in church. And they were asking us which part we played in the death of our brother - others all - they all answered and I was the only one who did not answer them. And then I said to them if Tozamele was not killed by you - members of the UDF why are you asking this. MS SEROKE Thank you Mr Nkumbi - I asked you firstly what was the situation in Hanover at that time. I will read to you the report from our researchers and I will tell you their report about the conflict around this place and the conflict between the UDF comrades and the leaders or the councillors. [indistinct] the activity in Hanover, with the [indistinct] meeting in [indistinct] on 17 April 1985 to discuss grievances. This meeting initiated the formation of the Hanover Residence Association as well as a youth organisation. This initiative immediately launched a campaign against the councillors in the community who were unwilling to be drawn into this structures. Calls were made for the councillors to leave the township. It was alleged the Mayor of the township was beaten and his household goods burnt in [indistinct] MR NKUMBI It is the first time I hear from you. The reverend told me that I am going there on my own risk - [[indistinct] and Monge [indistinct] took me to the reverent at that time and I was not aware of what was happening at that time. MS SEROKE The report continued to say that Mr Alfred Tozamele Nkumbi he was accused that he stabbed a woman and that is why people were looking for him because he stabbed this woman. MR NKUMBI MS SEROKE MR NKUMBI Yes because his wife knew that my brother stabbed this woman why did she want him back in the township. Why did this reverend say that my brother can come to the township and he will be secured. MS SEROKE What I am trying to find out is what was the real cause of the conflict amongst the people in the township - amongst the black people in the township. It was the Government which was trying to use people against other people. This is what caused the differences amongst people in the township. We are very hurt that people died in all sides - they died in the tents, they died in the location. We ask that since we can see that you are so frustrated with this and you are so hurt with this - and you are so angry with the UDF leader reverend - is there any other thing you want to say to this Commission concerning your grievances. MR NKUMBI There is a lot I can say to this Truth Commission. Here in Hanover in 1993 on the 16th of June I was passing through the hall - I was coming from Noupoort at that time. The situation was also bad in Noupoort. On that day I was not aware that anything can happen to me. Even the people who were toi-toiing gave me way to pass through to go to my home. MS SEROKE Are you still a teacher [indistinct]. MR NKUMBI Yes. MS SEROKE Are you a teacher here in Hanover. MR NKUMBI Yes. MS SEROKE MR NKUMBI MS SEROKE Thank you very much - I would give this opportunity to the Chairperson. ADV POTGIETER One of the accused that were sentenced to dead, Mr Booysen is at present the Mayor of this township is that correct? MR NKUMBI ADV POTGIETER And the other accused in fact one of them will be testifying when you finished to talk about the same incident - have you had contact with the other - I noted that one of them is deceased and the others are - some of them are not mentally healthy but have you had contact with the other people - perhaps spoken with them. Or do you think there is perhaps something to be gained in doing that? MR NKUMBI We do understand that the conditions they were under - they were used at that time. They did not do this - their own version. ADV POTGIETER Do you still feel at present that there are people that are against you in this community - do you still feel that there are sort of hostility towards you as a person in this community in Hanover? MR NKUMBI ADV POTGIETER And what I am just trying - I am just trying to ascertain yourself - you yourself how do you feel at present I mean you say you live in town - and I might have misheard you but I got this sort of feeling that you are not at peace as yet. And I may add that one of the important aspects of the work of this Commission is the one of looking at this whole thing of reconciliation - looking at patching up and getting everybody to work together positively and move into the future. MR NKUMBI ADV POTGIETER MR NKUMBI Thank you. MS BURTON And we in the Commission can do some of that work - we can help to create the platforms so that people can ask the questions that you have asked, we can conduct the search for the truth. But the search for reconciliation has to go on and it requires work from everybody. I ask everybody here to look into their hearts and to remember those times and to think what now we must do next to built on that reconciliation and one think is we listen to one another with respect - we treat each other with respect and we hear those stories and we go on working at ways at which we can live together in peace and one hopes in due course with forgiveness. MR NKUMBI Thank you.