hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION HEARINGS 1996-10-07 KAROO 1 CT/ IDA TANTSI [mother], OLGA TANTSI [sister] BEAUTY TANTSI SHOOTING BY POLICE https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55368&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/karoo/tantsi.htm MS BURTON Good morning Ms Tantsi. MS TANTSI Good morning. MS BURTON Can you hear me well through the ear phones - thank you. MS TANTSI Yes, I can hear you. BEAUTY TANTSI Duly sworn states MS BURTON You have come today to tell us about what happened to you and to a number of members of your family in July 1985. And - your other members of your family are here as well, the other people who were injured at the time. MS TANTSI MS BURTON I am sorry to hear that. Please give her our greetings and good wishes. Please will you tell us then about what happened in your family home on that day in July 1985. MS TANTSI There was a pain in my eye at that time and it was the time that I was shot with bird shot and people they were stopping the van, because they wanted to police to come and see that they have shot someone. They did not want to stop. I heard that after I - I was discharged from the hospital. People went to call Mr Dave Beukes, who was the owner of the shop in the second street from where I was staying. When they called him, he came with his car and took me to the hospital. In hospital, I was not aware that my mother, Ida Tantsi, and my sister, my mother was seventy-two years old at that time. My sister - my younger sister - they were shot at that day. I was not aware of that. I was dizzy at that time and my eye was so painful. I had my doctor, Dr Mulller who was our family doctor at home. He came - they phone him and he came. When he arrived there, he took us to the X-ray and he found that the bullet is inside my eye and he could not do anything at that time. He had to transfer me to Kimberley. I stayed in Kimberley for a week - for two weeks. After two weeks I came back home. They told me that my mother and my sister were taken to prison and they were arrested while I was in Kimberley. They were charged for throwing stones. Unfortunately Mr Zepe, the police who arrested my mother is dead today and he wrote in the statement that my mother threw stones and my mother was not even there at that time. Because at that time we were shot, we were coming out of our home. In November the Magistrate saw that we were innocent. At that time we were appearing in court, it was my mother, my sister and myself and they decided in November that we were not guilty. They sent us home. Someone came to me to advise me that I should go to Cape Town to find lawyers for Human Rights and this person gave me the telephone number. This lawyer was Makulani from Cape Town. He - this person gave me telephone from Mr Bosalik. Mr Bosalik said he will come in January, because that time it was the time of the holiday. In January Mr Bosalik - in January or February - Mr Bosalik came to us to take statements - statement from my mother, my sister and myself. I think it was the time when the shop of Mr Pony was burnt down. I was included in this case, because the police heard that I am opening a case against them, because they shot me. Mr Joubert - my manager - had to go to court to explain I was at work at that day. Fortunately, because of all that, I was found innocent. And my case continued - the one I laid against Mr Potgieter and we received a day that we should go to Kimberley Supreme Court. And it was found that Mr Potgieter is guilty, because he shot me, although he said that we were part of the people who were fighting and throwing stones. My mother was also shot. She was seventy-one years old at that time. She was shot here in the shoulder and my sister and my child was shot in the back. And I can understand that, because they wanted my brother who was a teacher - who was a teacher, they wanted to arrest my brother. Because they used to come to our house to search for my brother and I told - we used to tell them that my brother was not staying there at the time. We were, the police were harassing us, because they used to come at night searching for my brother - searching all over the house for my brother. In my work this eye affected me very badly. It affected my work and I used to have painful headaches and I used to go to the hospital every time. As a result of that in 1994, the doctor said I have to stay at home and not go to work. The doctor said last year in 1995 he wanted to take me to the specialist in Kimberley and I did go to the specialist and I went to Doctor Meneer. Dr Meneer transferred me to the psychiatrist, Dr Koen, and Dr Koen said that I must stop working, stay at home, and I am not working at the present moment. I am staying at home and I am continuing with my treatment with Dr Van Aswegen. This is painful to me, because I lost certain part of my life which was important to me. Thank you. MS BURTON Thank you very much Ms Tantsi for telling us all of this and we are all so sorry that your mother and your sister, your sister is Olga, is that right? MS TANTSI Yes - Olga.. MS BURTON That they are not here with you today. You - if you are not able to work now, are you receiving a disability grant? MS TANTSI No, but at work they gave me money for my service. MS BURTON Your employers clearly supported you through the time when you were being arrested. MS TANTSI Yes, they were supporting me, especially my regional manager. MS BURTON MS TANTSI MS BURTON I am just going to ask if either of my colleagues want to ask you any questions. ADV POTGIETER Thank you Mary. Ms Tantsi you have told us about an experience which many people have had and which is still quite shocking to say the least of it. You and your mother and your sister were basically in your yard - you were at home in your yard when you - when you got shot. MS TANTSI Yes, we were in the yard when we got shot. We were in the yard outside the house. ADV POTGIETER And eventually in the court in Kimberley, that court accepted that - that you were shot, you were never involved in anything illegal. MS TANTSI Yes, it was found that we were innocent, because we were shot in the yard. ADV POTGIETER This policeman Potgieter, or the court found that he was shooting at some other people and that he was using this bird shot that spreads out when you fire with a - you use that kind of ammunition and that he shot you quite innocently. He never really aimed at you, he never really wanted to shoot you. MS TANTSI No, he was not aiming at me, but unfortunately at that time he was shooting - when we got out of the house - we were all shot - the three of us, Olga, my mother and myself and my - my daughter - because she was shot in the back. ADV POTGIETER And obviously what happened then that when the police realised that they were going to be in trouble, because they injured you, they injured your mother and your sister, they then made up these false charges against all three of you. And they charged you for public violence for throwing stones. MS TANTSI When Mr Zepe charged us he said that he found stones in my mother. And he said that my mother threw these stones. ADV POTGIETER MS TANTSI Yes, he just wanted to defend the police. ADV POTGIETER How old was your sister in 1985 when this incident happened? MS TANTSI I think she was nineteen or eighteen years old. ADV POTGIETER And you were yourself arrested - your mother of seventy-two year old - was arrested and your younger sister, eighteen - nineteen years old - was arrested and it took until November that year to be found not guilty. So you had to go to court the whole time until November. MS TANTSI Yes, we appeared in court all this time until November. ADV POTGIETER And when they charged you that day when you went to lay the charge against the police. When they arrested you, did they keep you in prison or did they release you in that same day - or what happened. MS TANTSI They did not release me at that same - the same day. I spent the night in prison - that day. ADV POTGIETER [Indistinct] appear in court only and then released. MS TANTSI I appeared in court the following day and they gave me the day to appear in court again. ADV POTGIETER And your mother and your sister when they were arrested - were they also kept in jail. MS TANTSI ADV POTGIETER How do you feel about this experience? How do feel about the police and how do you feel about the court system - the legal system at this stage? MS TANTSI ADV POTGIETER And that you were awarded some money, but has that made up for your feelings, for your experience? MS TANTSI ADV POTGIETER And what is the condition of the remaining eye? What is that like - is it affected in any was? MS TANTSI My right eye was almost affected, because when I wake up in the morning, there are blood stains in my eye and I could feel that, but I got this eye spectacles to help my eye and I am still receiving treatment from Dr Van Aswegen. ADV POTGIETER [indistinct] the shooting incident of July of 1985, were your eyes healthy? Did you only start wearing glasses after this incident? MS TANTSI Yes, my eyes were healthy. ADV POTGIETER [indistinct] so you never wore glasses before. You only got it after you lost your eye. MS TANTSI No, I never wore glasses before. ADV POTGIETER Thank you Ms Tantsi. MS SEROKE Beauty, how old is your mother at this stage. MS TANTSI MS SEROKE How is her health? MS TANTSI She is not feeling well. MS SEROKE Where is your daughter who was shot at the back now? Why - how was she affected? MS TANTSI MS SEROKE MS TANTSI Yes, this was a painful moment. MS SEROKE [Indistinct] got used to staying in prison for this days. We know and we hope that your manager will be blessed, because he supported you all this time. Thank you. ADV POTGIETER There is just one question I forgot to ask you Ms Tantsi - I am sorry. Your mother and your sister, did they make any claims against the police for their own experiences and did they get any money. MS TANTSI ADV POTGIETER She was also perfectly healthy before the incident - before July 1985 when the shooting happened, she was a healthy person. MS TANTSI Yes, she was a healthy person. ADV POTGIETER Thank you Chairperson. MS BURTON So we wish you better health and that things will go better for you and your mother and sister and your family. Thank you very much coming to tell us today. MS TANTSI Thank you.