hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION HEARINGS 1996-06-11 KIMBERLEY 2 CT/00400 KHOTSO FLATELA [son] NOMBI ETHEL FLATELA DIED IN EXILE https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55373&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/kimber/ct00400.htm MS SOOKA [indistinct] cell phones switched off - it is very rude to the witnesses who are giving their testimony to have your cell phone going off during their witness. We would also like to ask that if you move into the hall, you remain there until the witness finishes giving their testimony. It is very disturbing to hear the chairs move and the noise of people walking in and out and we would plead that as far as possible, you remain in the hall until such time as the witness completes their testimony. MS FLATELA MS SOOKA Cecilia you were welcome, thank you for being here - mamma will you stand so that Mr Potgieter can administer the oath please. ADV POTGIETER You can sit, the second Ms Flatela. NOMBI ETHEL FLATELA Duly sworn states ADV POTGIETER Thank you very much, you may be seated. MS SOOKA MS FLATELA And the only thing I really experienced is let me say I am not sorry to have been active in the ANC. The only thing which I am a little bit sorry, I was never happy at work, because I use to be called Winnie Mandela. I make myself Winnie Mandela. But well because of poverty and everything I had to stick out working. But as from today - as today I am still active in the ANC. MS SOOKA MS FLATELA Okay, my son Khotso Flatela was born 1967 in Kimberley. He attended school St Boneface from primary to high school. But he was expelled when he was doing Std 9 because of his political involvement. In 1985 he was briefly detained and his charges were public violence. But after three months they were withdrawn. But shortly after that he was again detained for they said that it was an alleged murder of an informer. He stayed for nine months in Bougroep and then again the charges were withdrawn. After that it was in December when they were withdrawn of the very same year, I think it was in 1985. And then he came out and still continued with his activity. He then belonged to the then GAZO youth organisation, which was a [indistinct] student organisation. So when the police started harassing him again I skipped the country, that was immediately after the 21st of March when we celebrated the Sharpville day, so we skipped after that, late March - early April. Okay, but this thing worried me time and again. So as their lawyer when they were still at prison was Chris Naidoo of Johannesburg, I went to Chris Naidoo in Johannesburg. I wanted him to at least to find out for me what has really happened. So when I got to Johannesburg, Chris Naidoo phoned Lusaka because I had the phone numbers on the telegram. The telegram was signed by comrade Alfred Nzo. So Chris Naidoo said that Lusaka said he must phone back after an hour and then we waited - and then after a hour the phone came back from Lusaka, they said that they never sent such a telegram. But deep down in my heart, I knew that something must have happened to this child. How can people of the organisation who our leaders can sent such a telegram and then there is nothing is like that. MS SOOKA Take your time. MS FLATELA And they had to bury the child - when I asked them where did you bury the - no because there are no more [indistinct] in Luanda, it was already nine days the child had died so we had to bury him. And then mamma Ruth said to me, okay since there are comrades MK-comrades who usually come when their families come and visit them, they come once a week - so you will have to stay for the week here, and then the plane which leaves for Angola goes only on a Tuesday. Within two weeks time you will get the death certificate. Up till today I am still waiting for that death certificate. Mamma Ruth came back from exile, I went to her again, I kept pestering her to tell me the truth what is the real truth and where is the death certificate. At the end of the day we became enemies. MS SOOKA Mamma I know that it is very painful for you, but I do need to ask you a few questions so that we can get some clarity. You said that you were told that he in fact had died in Lusaka but when you got to Lusaka you were told by comrade Tshwete that he had actually died in Luanda. MS FLATELA Yes. MS SOOKA MS FLATELA Yes. MS SOOKA MS FLATELA MS SOOKA MS FLATELA Ja. MS SOOKA MS FLATELA MS SOOKA Can you tell me exactly what he told you please. MS FLATELA MS SOOKA Did he give you the names of the other people who were part of that mission - the scouting mission. MS FLATELA MS SOOKA Do you think that you were mislead because the was embarrassed about the fact that they were left to die there. MS FLATELA MS SOOKA Mamma are you aware of the fact that there have been different Commissions of Inquiry which have been instituted by the ANC themselves, there was the Steward Commission, the Motshanjane Commission and there was the Douglas Commission. At any time - let me ask you first - are you aware of the fact that there were these different Commissions of Inquiry. MS FLATELA No I am not aware. MS SOOKA Did you never go to the ANC offices when they came back from exile to ask them about what happened to your son? MS FLATELA MS SOOKA Were you - did you ever after Larry had come to see you, did you ever go back to the ANC offices with the information he had given you and asked them about whether that was correct or not. MS FLATELA MS SOOKA This is a very difficult question because why do you - you said after - in your testimony that you become enemies with her, is this because you did not believe that she was telling you the truth and you constantly harassed her for an answer. MS FLATELA Yes I question - went to her asked her to tell me the truth, because I linked her, I - she was the only link between myself and Lusaka - the two of us - she was my first link, so I kept on pestering her, but at the end of the day we were no more actually friends. MS SOOKA