hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION HEARINGS 1996-06-11 KIMBERLEY 2 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55375&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/kimber/ct00637.htm CASE NO: CT/00637 VICTIM: REUBEN GALLANT VIOLATION: SHOT AT CLOSE RANGE IN LEFT EYE WITH TEAR GAS TESTIMONIES BY: REUBEN GALLANT SANDRA MOSS MS SOOKA REUBEN GALLANT Duly sworn states SANDRA MOSS Duly sworn states ADV POTGIETER Thank you very much, you may be seated. MS SOOKA Reuben I want you to put the headphones on please because I will talk to you in Afrikaans but my Afrikaans is not so fluent, so sometimes I will switch to English, can you hear me? Would you briefly tell us about what happened to you? MR GALLANT And they walked passed my father and they approached Isak, they wanted to arrest him. I walked up to them and I was busy planting the grass. I left my spade where I was busy planting the grass and I went up to them to ask them why they wanted to arrest my brother. And whether they had any documents or warrants to - to show what they were arresting him for. Before I forget, whilst I was in hospital, there was a policeman - he was guarding me, he was sitting at the door and it seems to me that they were scared that I would try and run away. And after a couple of days Detective Zepe came to fetch me from the hospital and he was supposed to take me to Douglas but on that day they first brought me to the cells here in Kimberley. And I was detained there with some other people and they treated me well. MS SOOKA Reuben can you tell me how old you were when you were shot? MR GALLANT Well at that stage I was 18 years old. MS SOOKA Were you still at school? MR GALLANT Yes, I was still at school. MS SOOKA Were you a member of the ANC? MR GALLANT Yes, at that stage I was the organiser of the ANC Youth League. MS SOOKA When the policeman said - shoot the dog - do you think he meant that the dog had to be shot or was he referring to you? MR GALLANT At the time when Man Alleen told Venter to shoot the dog, I was very far away from the dog. I was about one - I was about 55 metres away from Venter and the dog was quite a distance away from me, so the dog and I were far apart. MS SOOKA Please tell me was it a normal occurrence that the police would arrive and just come and arrest people? MR GALLANT MS SOOKA Is it usual for the police to harass young people like yourself who were members of the ANC? MR GALLANT MS SOOKA MR GALLANT MS SOOKA Did you lay a charge against the police? MR GALLANT Are you - do you mean did I actually lay a charge? Yes, and that - that is the case which the Attorney General decided not to prosecute, not to continue with. MS SOOKA In your statement you say that the ANC also intervened and tried to revive the case. Can you elaborate on that? MR GALLANT Yes, I went to the Youth Leagues offices and they referred me to a Mr Mark Fletcher and I went to Mr Fletcher to try and obtain the case documents, to try and find out how it had been investigated and so on. And he told me that if I wanted to carry on with the case, I must return to him but I never went back because I was financially not able to continue with the case. MS SOOKA Now, did a private doctor ever examine your eye? MR GALLANT No never been to a private doctor with my eye, the only eye specialist that I went to was when I had to obtain my marble eye. MS SOOKA Can you tell us how the loss of your eye affected you? MR GALLANT MS SOOKA MR GALLANT Could you please repeat the question? MS SOOKA MR GALLANT MS SOOKA Can you tell me whether your currently employed? MR GALLANT MS SOOKA Did Mr Fletcher ever tell you why the Attorney General declined to prosecute? MR GALLANT MS SOOKA I refer to the above and to my letter dated the 15th of December 1995. I wish to advise that I have received a copy of the docket relating to the incident where in you were shot. I wish to advise that I have read all the statements in the particular docket and it appears that the investigation undertaken in this regard was a full, fair and complete investigation. Having regard to the statements included in the particular docket it appears that there were opposed versions. That of yourself and your witnesses and of the policemen involved in the incident. It appears that the Attorney General elected to except the version of the policemen. And in a letter dated the 8th of July he refused to prosecute. MR GALLANT They did not. MS SOOKA I see, Reuben can you tell us what you expect from the Truth Commission? MR GALLANT MS SOOKA UNKNOWN The speakers microphone is not on. MS SOOKA Before I ask the other Commissioners to ask you questions, I just want to take the witness of your friend over there please. Will you stand so that the oath can be administered to you please. I am sorry I forgot that you already sworn the oath, would you please be seated. Sandra would you please tell us what you remember of the events on that particular day. MS MOSS MS SOOKA Please tell me when the policeman said: Shoot the dog did he - was he intending Reuben or the dog? MS MOSS MS SOOKA And they wanted to run away? MS MOSS Yes. MS SOOKA Did you speak to the police, did you give them a statement at any stage? MS MOSS The police came to fetch us to give statements but they never did anything more, we were never taken to court for any court proceedings or anything like that. MS SOOKA So you just gave one statement? MS MOSS Yes. MS SOOKA Now, tell me - I forgot to ask Reuben but the policeman, Man Alleen, what is his real name? MS MOSS MS SOOKA MS MOSS No. MS SOOKA Thank you. UNKNOWN COMMISSIONER MR GALLANT Yes, it took place in Douglas. UNKNOWN COMMISSIONER MR GALLANT Yes. UNKNOWN COMMISSIONER Now, the day before the shooting incident it seems as if there was an incident involving a policeman, Steven Mbushwa, is that correct? MR GALLANT UNKNOWN COMMISSIONER Could you please explain to us what happened? MR GALLANT UNKNOWN COMMISSIONER Was your brother also present during this particular incident? MR GALLANT UNKNOWN COMMISSIONER And it was the very next day that the police arrived at your house, looking for Isak? MR GALLANT Yes, according to their statement they were looking for both myself and for Isak but they actually went up to Isak and that is why I confronted them to try and find out why they were trying to arrest him. UNKNOWN COMMISSIONER Did you think that it had anything to do with the incident on the previous day? MR GALLANT UNKNOWN COMMISSIONER You said that you asked the police at some stage why they were trying to arrest your brother. Did they mention any reason? MR GALLANT No, they had no warrants, nothing. UNKNOWN COMMISSIONER MR GALLANT UNKNOWN COMMISSIONER Now, perhaps I can just mention something to you because we take all these facts into consideration. We received a conflicting report from somebody - a member of the police regarding the complaints and the charges laid against you. On the one hand they said it was a robbery case made against you and on the other hand they said it was a kidnapping case made against you. But - now what charge did they actually bring against you. MR GALLANT Well, this charge of kidnapping. UNKNOWN COMMISSIONER Did they ever explain this kidnapping charge - did they explain to you who it was that you were supposed to have kidnapped? MR GALLANT UNKNOWN COMMISSIONER Why would they have mentioned a kidnapping charge? MR GALLANT Well, we never kidnapped anything. Jessie Barnard came with us to go and talk to the women, the landlord but at that stage we had the policemen guarding the houses. Now Jessie Barnard worked for them first and then after the change in Government then they became part of the SAPD. UNKNOWN COMMISSIONER But now what - what is your comment on this charge of kidnapping. Let us take them both because the police seem not to have made up their mind whether it was kidnapping or robbery. What is your comment? Is there any basis for any of these charges? MR GALLANT UNKNOWN COMMISSIONER Did any witnesses testify against you in court to say that you kidnapped him? MR GALLANT UNKNOWN COMMISSIONER MR GALLANT There were three vans, there were about six policeman - no fewer than six. UNKNOWN COMMISSIONER Were they all armed? MR GALLANT Yes, they were armed. UNKNOWN COMMISSIONER Thank you Reuben. ADV NTSEBEZA Did you ever file a civil claim against either Venter or the Police General or the Minister of Police for your injuries? MR GALLANT ADV NTSEBEZA You can reply in Afrikaans. MR GALLANT ADV NTSEBEZA [indistinct] hired a lawyer to prepare civil claims against either Venter or the Minister of Police? Or you never were represented by a lawyer to claim money for your damages - for your eyes that you - got lost in the [indistinct] MR GALLANT No, I never went to an attorney, I did ask the attorney who represented us - I never claimed any damages from the police, no. UNKNOWN COMMISSIONER