hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION HEARINGS 1996-06-11 KIMBERLEY 2 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55378&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/kimber/ct00647.htm CASE NO: CT/00647 VICTIM: THABO MOOROSI VIOLATION: SEVERELY TORTURED AND DETAINED TESTIMONY BY: THABO MOOROSI MS SOOKA THABO MOOROSI Duly sworn states ADV POTGIETER Thank you, you may be seated. MS SOOKA ADV NTSEBEZA Thank you Madam Commissioner, now are we going to be speaking in English. MR MOOROSI ADV NTSEBEZA Oh yes, right. Now Mr Moorosi can you quickly tell us about yourself, where you were born, where you grew up and what work you do now, what you did before this fateful day in 1986. MR MOOROSI I was born on the 27th of November 1956 in a small town in the Northern Free State, Vredefort. I attended my primary education at the Vredefort Bantu Committee School as it was called by then. And then I proceeded to Kuruman to join my parents who were working there. There I did my secondary and high school education, that is till 1975. And then I joined the underground structure of the ANC in 1975. So they arrested me at the bus rank when I was supposed to go to Mandibogo and then proceed to Kimberley. Then when they arrested me it was soldiers and this Security Police. So definitely there were aware that I was coming. So I was taken to Mafikeng Police Station where I was - I was forced to remain naked in a cell and then I was tortured brutally. And then I was hit with the butt of a gun on my head and all these horrible things were - were done to me. ADV NTSEBEZA And if you are able to remember on a day by day - say who on a particular day tortured you because the Commission would like to see if there is a pattern - it the same persons come up again and if the same methods are used so that, you know we can - we can present this completed picture as possible in our report. MR MOOROSI ADV NTSEBEZA Now [intervention] MR MOOROSI ADV NTSEBEZA Now when you say they were pulling you by your private parts, what do you mean, how did they do that? MR MOOROSI They pulled me through - with - with the private parts because I was naked. ADV NTSEBEZA Now, you said you have scares from stitches [intervention] MR MOOROSI Yes. ADV NTSEBEZA Where do you have this scares, on your head? MR MOOROSI Ja, on my head here. ADV NTSEBEZA What did they beat you on your head? MR MOOROSI ADV NTSEBEZA MR MOOROSI Even if I try to work, I was supposed to - to be - to have joined the integration process of the Army. So even the doctors there realised not I was not suitable for the Army. ADV NTSEBEZA Now, what was the role played by Venter if any when you were being tortured by Tsutsubi and this other person? MR MOOROSI So Venter was interrogating me at Rooigrond Prison wanting to know what was my mission when I entered the country. Why did I - I leave the country, what was I having with me, with whom was I staying in Botswana - all such things. ADV NTSEBEZA MR MOOROSI ADV NTSEBEZA And when Venter interrogated you, was it whilst you were naked? Were you interrogated in cells or were you interrogated in - in an office? MR MOOROSI I was interrogated in an office. ADV NTSEBEZA And were you naked at the time or [intervention] MR MOOROSI No, by then - I was naked in Mafikeng, in Rooigrond I had my clothes on. ADV NTSEBEZA Now let me get this clear. Is Rooigrond and Mafikeng two different places? MR MOOROSI Yes. ADV NTSEBEZA Where were you kept for five days naked and stretched with your private parts and all that [indistinct] MR MOOROSI ADV NTSEBEZA And were you then subsequently moved to Rooigrond? MR MOOROSI Subsequently it was back to Rooigrond. ADV NTSEBEZA Were you ever tortured in any sort of way in Rooigrond? MR MOOROSI No, I was - I was handcuffed because I was unconscious - I only woke up in Rooigrond. ADV NTSEBEZA And when this interrogation was taking place were you handcuffed? MR MOOROSI For the first day I was handcuffed , then for the second day they un-handcuffed me. ADV NTSEBEZA Whilst you were - during the period that you were at Rooigrond were you severely mistreated as there as well or the mistreatment stopped only at Mafikeng? MR MOOROSI ADV NTSEBEZA In Mafikeng? MR MOOROSI ADV NTSEBEZA So you were never tortured at Rooigrond? MR MOOROSI No. ADV NTSEBEZA Now, what would you like the Commission to do for you. MR MOOROSI ADV NTSEBEZA Incidentally who in the Army is deciding that, are they MK people or SADF people? MR MOOROSI ADV NTSEBEZA Do they know this history? MR MOOROSI Yes, they know it. ADV NTSEBEZA Do they know that it is a consequence of what happened in [intervention] MR MOOROSI ADV NTSEBEZA No, no, do they know in the Army that you are getting this psychiatry treatment as a result [intervention] MR MOOROSI ADV NTSEBEZA MR MOOROSI ADV NTSEBEZA Are you aware that Tsutsubi is reported to be the head of the National Intelligent Agency in Nkube, Mafikeng? MR MOOROSI ADV NTSEBEZA If that was true what would be your view in view of what he did to you now that he holds a public office still in the [intervention] MR MOOROSI He might be the head of - of the Intelligence of Security but because the political machinery is in control of the police. I would like that if he rises within his rank, let it not be high because he might misuse it, maybe in future. ADV NTSEBEZA MR MOOROSI I understand Makinta is also a head of security there. ADV NTSEBEZA Thank you, [indistinct] MS SOOKA Thabo I want to ask two questions. You - you started off telling us about your role before - before you were captures. Can you give us an idea of what kind of person you was - can you - you were. Can you describe your personality - how you were before you were captured and tortured. Give us an idea of kind of person you were then. MR MOOROSI Well, I was trained as a leader at the ANC camps. I went through political education in Bulgaria where I become a head of the political section of the ANC and when I entered the country I had the responsibility of being a commander of the unit that enter the country. But that - all those qualities that I had are presently no more there because of the health condition in which I am presently which was caused because of the torture that I went through. MS SOOKA My second question to you is, if you were to be integrated into the Army - the present South African National Defence Force, do you have an idea of what status you would have within the Defence Force - what - what - do you have idea of what rank you could have been awarded if you were to integrate? MR MOOROSI I could have - I was awarded actually the rank of a Major. MS SOOKA Can you just say that again please? MR MOOROSI I was awarded the rank of a Major by the ANC. MS SOOKA So you were ranked - you were rank as a Major by the ANC? MR MOOROSI Yes. MS SOOKA So you would have been an officer if you had to be integrated into the Army. MR MOOROSI Yes, an officer, yes. MS SOOKA MR MOOROSI Okay. ADV NTSEBEZA Now have you opposed the Minister of Defence in connection with demobilisation package? MR MOOROSI They have given me the demobilisation package - that was R58,000-00 and then I bought a house with that money because I had no house. MS SOOKA