hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION HEARINGS 1996-06-11 KIMBERLEY 2 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55381&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/kimber/ct00653c.htm CASE NO: CT/00653 VICTIM: IZAKIEL MOKONE VIOLATION: KILLED BY HAND GRENADE DURING MARCH TESTIMONY BY: THEMBINKOSI STEVEN NGQELE MS SOOKA Could we call Thembinkosi Ngqele to the stand please. Thembinkosi, do you want to put on the earphones? Can you hear me - you are going to give your evidence in Xhosa, is that correct? MR NGQELE MS SOOKA Could you stand up please so that Mr Potgieter can administer the Oath? THEMBINKOSI STEVEN NGQELE Duly sworn states ADV POTGIETER Thank you very much - you may be seated. MS SOOKA We would like to thank you for coming to give evidence to the others. I want you to relax and the evidence that you are going to give, give that without any hesitation, so that the mission of this Commission could carry on, so that you and Sipho and the others can reconcile and that would be only possible if you speak here. MR NGQELE Yes. MS SOOKA I would like you to tell us where you were born, give us your background and before you give us details about what happened because we want you to tell us what happened on this day of the march, but we would like you to give us background. MR NGQELE I am Thembinkosi Steven Ngqele and I was born here in Kimberley. I attended school here at the Masesa Lower Primary School and then I went to Zengisa Higher Primary. I worked at Serelitso where I started Std 6 - I started Std 6 in Serelitso. ADV NTSEBEZA MR NGQELE I was taken by the police at home. ADV NTSEBEZA Please come back on the day when we want to talk about - we want to we want to know what really happened during that time and then you can go on and state how were you arrested and what happened when you were arrested. MR NGQELE It was on the 21st and we were coming from school - there was a march where we were going to the Bophuthatswana offices from school. We were coming from school. We warned the people at the Arena. We met a crowd - we were coming out from school at Serelitso School - the part that we played - we were marshals, most of us we were belonging to the Youth League - we marched to town. During that period there was memoranda which were handed over to the Consul. Three of them were handed to the Consul. When I was looking down I saw a grenade going past my feet and I mentioned that I saw the grenade. So many people were injured during this incident and the others were taken to the offices. We helped with the transportation of some of the people and one of my friends was killed in the bombing. Thereafter we went to the location - we stayed for a short period. On the 1st and the 2nd day - on the 3rd of June the police came in to my place. It was very early in the morning. I think it was 2 am. They surrounded the house - when they knocked at the door my mother opened and they stated that they wanted to search the house - they also stated that I threw a grenade during the march and amongst the marchers. They took me along and when I was about to go - when I was about to go out the gate they took me to the Golf car - it was a Citi Golf which was just next to - to their truck. They took me to their offices and they wanted me to give details of what happened. On the first day I was able to tolerate what they were doing but the second day there was another police commissioner who came. He brought a letter and then it was stated that I was detained under the Security Act for 10 days, I was the accused. The letter was written to me and they said I must sign but I refused. Mr [indistinct] he is now a Lieutenant he is at the SP, he was present, they also pressurised me to sign, I did. They read it through again and then they insisted that I should agree and admit that I know what is written there but I still refused. At the end through the intimidation and when they were trying to show me how they are going to throw me out of the window, I was afraid. At the end I signed because I feared for my life. Rossouw came to fetch me, he was the Captain and on my way to the court he stated, he drilled me to say what I was supposed to say in court.. It was a hell of a indoctrination. In court when I tried to state what happened, he tried to prohibit me from doing so. ADV NTSEBEZA MR NGQELE He said he is going to kill me. MS SOOKA [indistinct] MR NGQELE ADV NTSEBEZA Did you stay six months there? MR NGQELE Yes, I did. ADV NTSEBEZA Just tell us about the day when you were in court - the day when you were in court. MR NGQELE Which day? ADV NTSEBEZA The day you was in court. MR NGQELE Do you mean the day before I did go to the court now? ADV NTSEBEZA Yes. MR NGQELE Yes before I went to court they showed me a photograph and they stated how Mabija fell through the window, they pushed him so they said if I want to go - to be released then I must work with them. So I feared what was going to happen to me because I had no lawyer and I knew that I would stay for a long time in jail. ADV NTSEBEZA And then when you realised that you were alone you felt that you should sign? MR NGQELE ADV NTSEBEZA It is why Sipho said that really you could not just state what you said before without the pressure. In other words whilst you give evidence now, you used your statement because you knew that if you say something different you would be in for a high jump. MR NGQELE Yes, it is because I was fearing for my life so I had to abide by their expectations that is why I am apologising now to the people. ADV NTSEBEZA Just tell me how are you? MR NGQELE I am 21 years old. ADV NTSEBEZA How old were you then? MR NGQELE I was - I was 17 - I was 18 years when I was already in cells. ADV NTSEBEZA Did you meet Sipho already before this day? MR NGQELE No I have never met them. ADV NTSEBEZA Is it the first time that you see them? MR NGQELE Yes, it is. ADV NTSEBEZA Ever since you met them after the court proceedings. MR NGQELE Yes, and after these court proceedings I was told by Kampala that Van der Kolf wanted to see me but before they took me there I went to the intelligence of the ANC organisation and then this one said yes, they will come and assist me but they never came back to me. Terror said they will come again to get some statement from me, but this never happened. ADV NTSEBEZA If what you say to the Commission can assist these people who are detained to be released would you like that to happen? What you said today - do you expect it to assist the detained people to be released. MR NGQELE ADV NTSEBEZA Okay, except - just tell me what - what did the police do to you when you were arrested? MR NGQELE Mostly they used to send some boers to me and the boers would just slap me on the back and kick me. ADV NTSEBEZA So when they showed you this Mabija, what did they do? MR NGQELE They took me and showed me through the window, - the commander of - that unfortunately what befell one of my comrades, when he was in Bloemfontein he was shot while I was back in Bophuthatswana to report to my Commanders. Then the other one was arrested. ADV NTSEBEZA What would you like the Commission to do for you? MR NGQELE I would like the Commission to really attend to the fact that the two people detained should be released so that they can forgive me - I would also like them to bring the police who did all this - should appear before all of us in public so that they can be seen by everyone. ADV NTSEBEZA Thank you madam Chair. MS SOOKA Denzil - could we have some quite please. ADV POTGIETER Can I just go back to the incident - did I understand you correctly. All that you saw was this grenade that came past your feet, is that what you saw? MR NGQELE Yes it is so. ADV POTGIETER Did you see where the grenade was coming from? MR NGQELE ADV POTGIETER MR NGQELE MS SOOKA