<?xml version="1.0" encoding="windows-1252"?>
<hearing xmlns="http://trc.saha.org.za/hearing/xml" schemaLocation="https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/export/hearingxml.xsd">
	<systype>hrvtrans</systype>
	<type>HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION HEARINGS</type>
	<startdate>1996-06-10</startdate>
	<location>KIMBERLEY</location>
	<day>1</day>
								<url>https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55387&amp;t=&amp;tab=hearings</url>
	<originalhtml>https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/kimber/ct04600.htm</originalhtml>
		<lines count="155">
		<line number="1">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>CASE NO: CT/04600</text>
		</line>
		<line number="2">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>VICTIM: TOMMY KGATIWANE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="3">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>VIOLATION: SHOT</text>
		</line>
		<line number="4">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>TESTIMONY BY: TOMMY KGATIWANE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="5">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>TOMMY KGATIWANE Verklaar onder eed</text>
		</line>
		<line number="6">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>ADV POTGIETER</text>
		</line>
		<line number="7">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="8">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MNR KGATIWANE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="9">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Okay.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="10">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>ADV POTGIETER</text>
		</line>
		<line number="11">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="12">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MNR KGATIWANE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="13">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Korrek ja.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="14">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>ADV POTGIETER</text>
		</line>
		<line number="15">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="16">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MNR KGATIWANE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="17">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Ja.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="18">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>ADV POTGIETER</text>
		</line>
		<line number="19">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="20">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MNR KGATIWANE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="21">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Korrek ja.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="22">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>ADV POTGIETER</text>
		</line>
		<line number="23">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Wil jy nie vir ons so bietjie vertel wat daar gebeur het nou eerstens nie.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="24">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MNR KGATIWANE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="25">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="26">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="27">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text> Reg die tyd wat een van die - daai konstabels uitval - hy het te voet geloop sien een - onse chief marshal hom en hy gaan toe daar om hom te gaan vra waarvoor - waarvoor het hulle ons geskiet met die traangas.  Reg soos - so  het die - die march agter die chief marshal gegaan, maar so - soos die marshal nou eintlik met hom praat - so tree hy agter - agter toe, die tyd wat hy in sy jaard - wat hy op die trap kom van sy deur - toe is dit wat hy  &#039;n  skoot af los en hy tref toe vir my.  En ek hardloop  &#039;n ent  ek gaan val en my broer en  &#039;n ander vrind kom tel my toe op.  En ek kry  &#039;n naaste huis en ek was my - my gesig want die hou hier deur die - deur die wang dit het vreeslik gebloei.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="28">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="29">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>ADV POTGIETER</text>
		</line>
		<line number="30">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Hoeveel keer was jy raak geskiet?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="31">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MNR KGATIWANE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="32">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="33">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>ADV POTGIETER</text>
		</line>
		<line number="34">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="35">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MNR KGATIWANE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="36">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Ekskuus?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="37">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>ADV POTGIETER</text>
		</line>
		<line number="38">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="39">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MNR KGATIWANE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="40">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Ekskuus?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="41">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>ADV POTGIETER</text>
		</line>
		<line number="42">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Is dit  &#039;n polisieman wat jou geskiet het.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="43">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MNR KGATIWANE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="44">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Dis  &#039;n polisieman ja.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="45">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>ADV POTGIETER</text>
		</line>
		<line number="46">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Wie is dit?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="47">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MNR KGATIWANE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="48">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Hulle roep hom Kgololo.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="49">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>ADV POTGIETER</text>
		</line>
		<line number="50">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Kgololo.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="51">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MNR KGATIWANE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="52">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Kgololo ja.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="53">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>ADV POTGIETER</text>
		</line>
		<line number="54">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="55">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MNR KGATIWANE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="56">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Ja.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="57">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>ADV POTGIETER</text>
		</line>
		<line number="58">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>En die polisie het traangas geskiet daarso.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="59">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MNR KGATIWANE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="60">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Ja.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="61">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>ADV POTGIETER</text>
		</line>
		<line number="62">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Na wie toe het die polisie die traangas geskiet?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="63">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MNR KGATIWANE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="64">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Ekskuus?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="65">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>ADV POTGIETER</text>
		</line>
		<line number="66">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Na wie toe het die polisie geskiet met die traangas?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="67">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MNR KGATIWANE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="68">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Na ons toe - direk na ons toe.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="69">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>ADV POTGIETER</text>
		</line>
		<line number="70">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Wie is julle?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="71">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MNR KGATIWANE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="72">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Die ANC.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="73">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>ADV POTGIETER</text>
		</line>
		<line number="74">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>ANC.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="75">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MNR KGATIWANE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="76">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Ja.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="77">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>ADV POTGIETER</text>
		</line>
		<line number="78">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Net na julle kant toe of na albei kante toe?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="79">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MNR KGATIWANE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="80">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Nee net na ons toe.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="81">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>ADV POTGIETER</text>
		</line>
		<line number="82">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Net na julle kant toe.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="83">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MNR KGATIWANE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="84">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Ja.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="85">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>ADV POTGIETER</text>
		</line>
		<line number="86">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Nou het jy  &#039;n saak gemaak nadat jy geskiet was?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="87">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MNR KGATIWANE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="88">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="89">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text> En hulle het toe - hy die Sersant het toe  &#039;n saak teen my gemaak - maar ons was toe tien in die saak daar, en ek was die beskuldigde nr 10.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="90">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>ADV POTGIETER</text>
		</line>
		<line number="91">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>So hulle het liewer vir jou aangekla.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="92">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MNR KGATIWANE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="93">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Ekskuus.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="94">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>ADV POTGIETER</text>
		</line>
		<line number="95">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Hulle het vir jou aangekla.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="96">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MNR KGATIWANE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="97">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Ja.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="98">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>ADV POTGIETER</text>
		</line>
		<line number="99">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="100">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MNR KGATIWANE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="101">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Ekskuus?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="102">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>ADV POTGIETER</text>
		</line>
		<line number="103">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Hoekom - hoekom het julle jou aangekla.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="104">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MNR KGATIWANE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="105">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="106">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>ADV POTGIETER</text>
		</line>
		<line number="107">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>En wat het toe gebeur van daai saak teen jou?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="108">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MNR KGATIWANE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="109">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Daar was toe twee prokureurs wat die saak verdedig het hier in Kimberley.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="110">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>ADV POTGIETER</text>
		</line>
		<line number="111">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Toe wen julle of wat?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="112">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MNR KGATIWANE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="113">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Ja hulle het die saak gevat.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="114">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>ADV POTGIETER</text>
		</line>
		<line number="115">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Wat is die - hoe is die situasie nou daarso het  julle nog altyd probleme tussen die twee groepe?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="116">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MNR KGATIWANE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="117">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="118">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>ADV POTGIETER</text>
		</line>
		<line number="119">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>So dan kan daar nie meer probleme wees nie.  Kan ek jou nou net vra van - miskien kan jy ons ook  &#039;n bietjie help met daai geval van jou broer van Aubrey - kan jy nog daai dag onthou die dag wat Aubrey aangerand was?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="120">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MNR KGATIWANE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="121">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Ja ek onthou baie goed.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="122">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>ADV POTGIETER</text>
		</line>
		<line number="123">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Weet jy van daai bus, die bus mense wat daar gekom het.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="124">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MNR KGATIWANE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="125">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="126">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>CHAIRPERSON</text>
		</line>
		<line number="127">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Order please.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="128">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>ADV POTGIETER</text>
		</line>
		<line number="129">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Was jy aan die slaap - jammer gaan maar aan.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="130">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MNR KGATIWANE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="131">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="132">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>ADV POTGIETER</text>
		</line>
		<line number="133">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Is dit - was die vreemde mense gewees daar in Griekwastad?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="134">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MNR KGATIWANE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="135">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Ekskuus?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="136">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>ADV POTGIETER</text>
		</line>
		<line number="137">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Is dit mense van iewers anders?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="138">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MNR KGATIWANE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="139">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Ja dit is mense van ander plek ons ken hulle nie.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="140">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>ADV POTGIETER</text>
		</line>
		<line number="141">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Jy het nie vir hulle geken nie, hulle is vreemdelinge daar gewees?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="142">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MNR KGATIWANE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="143">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Dit is vreemde mense - heelwat vreemde mense - kyk Griekwastad is maar  &#039;n klein-  &#039;n klein plekkie jy kan - daai hele mense kan jy sommer ken - is maar  &#039;n klein plekkie, maar enige iemand sal verbaas  die dinge wat daar gebeur het.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="144">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>ADV POTGIETER</text>
		</line>
		<line number="145">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Was daar - behalwe vir Aubrey se geval was daar nog ander moeilikheid ook daai dag gewees - toe daai bus mense daar in Griekwastad was?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="146">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MNR KGATIWANE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="147">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Niks nie.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="148">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>ADV POTGIETER</text>
		</line>
		<line number="149">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Net Aubrey se geval?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="150">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MNR KGATIWANE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="151">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Ja.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="152">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>ADV POTGIETER</text>
		</line>
		<line number="153">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Okay,  baie dankie meneer en mevrou - ek gee oor vir die Voorsitter.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="154">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>VOORSITTER</text>
		</line>
		<line number="155">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
	</lines>
</hearing>