hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1996-09-23 KLERKSDORP 1 LETLHOGONOLO MAHUMAPELO 01534 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55399&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/klerks/mahumape.htm DR RANDERA Good afternoon, Mr Mahumapelo. You are the last person from Wolmaransstad this afternoon. I know that all of you have a long journey to make to get back to your hometown later on, after your statement. Before I ask Commissioner Yasmin Sooka who is going to be helping you, and before I hand over to her, can you please stand to take the oath. LETLHOGONOLO C MAHUMAPELO (Duly sworn, states). DR RANDERA Thank you. MS SOOKA Thank you for coming today. I believe that you are going to be telling us about the killing of your uncle. Are we saying your surname correct? Tell us how you pronounce it? MR MAHUMAPELO You are not calling it, I am Christian Mahumapelo. MS SOOKA Thank you. Do you want to tell us a little bit about yourself first and then tell us about what happened to your uncle. MR MAHUMAPELO Okay. I am Christian Letlhogonole Mahumapelo. I am staying at Wolmaransstad. I went to school at Gatoliteli(?). MS SOOKA (Speaker's mike not on). Carry on. Are you comfortable? MR MAHUMAPELO I am staying at Wolmaransstad, I am still KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 2 L MAHUMAPELO saying there. I am the second child of Susan Mosheshoe at Bothaville. I am the one who is looking after my parents because my family and my sister is married. I am one of the activists at Wolmaransstad to see that change comes in our area and all over the country. I would like to talk about my uncle who was shot by one of the policeman at Wolmaransstad. It was during the water crisis at that time in Wolmaransstad in 1983. When there was a water problem we used to get water from the wells, which we made ourselves, in an area called Debing. As my uncle was one who was not working, he was helping my grandmother to fetch water when we are at school. Somewhere in February 1993 he went out with his friend to fetch water. Nearby the Indian community there were some Whites who were understanding our problems at the location. We did that. With that water shortage problem - I don't remember the day well, but it was in February 1993, they went to fetch water there where we call it Debing. It was roundabout six to seven, when it is not dusk and that is the time when many people used to go and fetch water there. Whilst he was still out there he was shot behind his head, by one of the policemen who was staying near Telkom where, nearer the place where we were fetching water, just next to our area. We heard the following day that my uncle has been shot at the police station. We did not know when did it happen. When the police came to tell us in the morning that our uncle was at the police station, we went there with some other family members to the police station to see whether that is true. When we arrived there we found out that it is true. He was there and he was shot and lying on the floor. Because that is the room where they used to put people who KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 3 L MAHUMAPELO was injured. He was shot behind in the head. He did not go to the hospital. He did not go anywhere, he died the same day. His case was heard in the magistrate's office because there was somebody who was with him on that day. He was not able to be there because of work, because he was afraid that he may be retrenched. So he was there to tell exactly what happened, so he was not able. In an investigation to try and find out who killed our uncle we didn't get any help. The only help we got is that this case will begin after the funeral. Then it started in 1994. Then there was only one court hearing. Then they told us we will come and get the dates, about when are they going to proceed with the case. Even up to now they have not yet proceeded with the case. We, the family members, we ask ourselves so many questions, as to whether which kind of an institution which can defend the rights of people, they should have taken this case to court. But we don't even get any notice or any letter to tell us what is happening. We followed that case. When they see that we are persisting, they sent us a letter that we should come to listen to the hearings of the case in 1994. When we listened to the proceedings, the same policeman who shot my uncle was not there. So the case was postponed. Even up to now we have not heard anything. It brings a lot of things within the family, because one of my grandmother is a person who is suffering from high blood, and she was admitted to hospital just about three weeks after the incident. She stayed at the hospital for a week then she died, because of what has happened to her KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 4 L MAHUMAPELO child. We buried her. I think that is where I would put my statement. MS SOOKA Thank you, Mr Mahumapelo for giving us that. I am going to ask you a few questions so that we can just get it down clearly. You talked about the trouble that people at Tswelelang were having about water. Can you tell me a little more about it, please. MR MAHUMAPELO I wouldn't explain further, because other comrades have explained. We had water shortage and we were fetching water from the Indian centre and other areas nearby in our area. MS SOOKA How far was it to fetch water from these other places? MR MAHUMAPELO It was quite a distance. Because I am staying at the old location, which is in the middle of Tswelelang. It was quite a distance from there to the Indian centre. MS SOOKA Could people just walk or did they take taxis? How did it work? Because how did people manage to carry that 20 litre drum? MR MAHUMAPELO Some were hiring cars, others were not able because of the availability of funds. You were paying, to hire a car you paid about R10,00 just to hire somebody to bring you water. Those who were not able, we were using our feet and we were carrying those 5 litres with water. MS SOOKA Was there somebody who actually witnessed the shooting of your uncle? MR MAHUMAPELO Yes, there is a person who was a witness about what happened. MS SOOKA And from what you have said, he was not able to attend court. KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 5 L MAHUMAPELO MR MAHUMAPELO What I said is that he was, he did not, he was not able to come because he was afraid that he is going to be retrenched from work, so he didn't come to court. MS SOOKA Do you remember who the policeman was who shot your uncle? MR MAHUMAPELO No, I don't know, even up to now I don't know who is that man, I don't know him. Other policemen I am asking them, then they just tell me that he is no more stationed at Wolmaransstad, he has been transferred, because the very same year, the other policeman collided with another person, with a police car. So it seems he had so many cases, so he was transferred. MS SOOKA The eye witness to your uncl's death, is he willing to make a statement? MR MAHUMAPELO Yes, he told me that he was prepared to give his testimony. MS SOOKA You mentioned in the statement that we took that you know that a post-mortem was conducted. Did the family have a lawyer or an independent doctor representing them at the post-mortem? MR MAHUMAPELO There was nobody from the family or any representative when the post-mortem was done. MS SOOKA Did your uncle have any children? MR MAHUMAPELO No, he didn't have any children. MS SOOKA Thank you for giving your statement. CHAIRPERSON Thank you. Any questions, Piet Meiring? PROF MEIRING Just to catch up on the last question. Your uncle, does he have no children? MR MAHUMAPELO He doesn't have a child, and at the time he was unemployed. He was a builder and where possible where he was able to build. He was the one who was taking care of KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 6 L MAHUMAPELO us, together with my mother. I only have one uncle who is working and the other uncles are not working. Our family is too big, it is an extended family. PROF MEIRING Was your uncle married? MR MAHUMAPELO No, he was not married. PROF MEIRING The water problem, you said in your testimony that there were a few Whites who also understood your problem and helped you. Did I hear that correct? MR MAHUMAPELO Yes, there were other Whites who were understanding and they were able to give us water. PROF MEIRING Were those farmers around or who were those Whites who helped you with the water? MR MAHUMAPELO They were not farmers, they were Whites who were staying near our area. That is the area where we passed when we went to town. So they were co-operating with the fellow Blacks who were staying nearby. CHAIRPERSON We thank you, Sir. We are with you, together with your family. May God be with you and strengthen you. We hear that this case has not yet been completed, it is just hanging in the air. Maybe because there is a Commission, we may try to see how can we help in regard to the case. We thank you. KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG