hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1996-09-23 KLERKSDORP 1 MAJOVA GARDINER 0119 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55400&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/klerks/majova.htm CHAIRPERSON I see you have somebody accompanying you today. Could you please introduce the lady to us. MR GARDINER Pardon? CHAIRPERSON Could you introduce the lady who is sitting with you. MR GARDINER I am with my wife this morning. CHAIRPERSON Mr Majova, could you just repeat that for us, please. MR GARDINER It is Dorothy Majova. CHAIRPERSON I'm soryr, Mr Majova, we didn't hear what you said. Can you tell us who is the lady with you. MR GARDINER It is my wife, Dorothy. CHAIRPERSON We welcome you too. Thank you. MR GARDINER Thank you. CHAIRPERSON Mr Majova, you are going to be telling us about your son, Mzwandile Watson Majova. Commissioner Yasmin Sooka who is sitting at the table over there, will be helping you in telling your story, but before I hand over to her, could you please stand and take the oath. GARINER MAJOVA (Duly sworn, states). CHAIRPERSON Thank you, Mr Majova, you may be seated. KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 2 MR MAJOVA Commissioner Sooka MS SOOKA Thank you, Mr Chairperson. Mr Majova, tell me your story, you have come to share your story with us about your son. Tell us a little bit about yourself and about your son and then tell us what actually happened to him. MR MAJOVA We were out at Brandfontein province, where we were working as teachers. We left Brandfontein and we came over here to Stilfontein. We were actually transferred by the department. We sent our child to Cape Town to do the junior certificate together with the senior. That was in 1972. During the holidays he used to come back home. But at the end of 1975 he did not report back home. We phoned over to Hewton University. The headmaster at Hewton told us that they are not there, that they have left college earlier after the winter holidays. After the winter holidays. That was in November when we are making the enquiries. The headmaster told us that they are not at school, they left school earlier of that holidays. From reliable sources they had crossed the border into Botswana. Well, we tried to find out from all other directions, we couldn't find anything. We started getting police coming to our place. They wanted to know where was our son. We told them that we don't know, he is missing as from college. But they told us that we have got to know where the boy is. But after a long time, not knowing where the boy is, being harassed by the police. In church they would take us out to the house to come and search the house. But they found nothing. It was only in 1985, I think when we were told that our KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 3 MR MAJOVA son is somewhere out in Tanganyika. We tried to find out how can we get this boy back, but we could not find ways of getting in. In 1991 there was a call from somewhere that we must get to Krugersdorp, a place called Kagiso and look there is a library. In front of the library there is a plaque there and the name of my boy is there. We went there with my wife and we saw the plaque with the names. The name of my son was also there. Not knowing who wrote the names there, and who put the plaque there, and after reading what was written there, we went to the police. Because they are not very far from the library. They referred us to Rustenberg to a place called Thabani. When we reached Thabani, at the police station, we wanted to find out about the boys. They took their books and went through the books. They found one book with their names in. It was written in inquest 13/1985. It was 1985.12.28. The names there were four. My boy's name was also there. We wanted to find out where they were buried. They told us that it was SAFFAS was responsible for that. We went there. They only said they had buried them. We did not get the place where they were buried. Up to today we have not had anybody telling us where the graves are. We will be very grateful if you could get that grave. MS SOOKA Thank you, Mr Majova. MR MAJOVA To give them their rights to bury him correctly. I am asking the Truth Commission with an idea of getting some help to get the grave of our child. We want to give him the correct rights of burial. They told us that it was a pauper's funeral that they gave him. KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 4 MR MAJOVA MS SOOKA Tatta, thank you. Let me ask you a few questions, just to make sure that I have got all the details of your story properly. You have said right at the beginning that both you and your wife were teachers. Is that correct? MR MAJOVA Yes, it is true. MS SOOKA You were transferred to Stilfontein by the department. MR MAJOVA Yes, it is the truth. MS SOOKA How old was your son, Mzwandile when he disappeared? MR MAJOVA He was born in 1958 and he disappeared in 1985. I am not sure ... MS SOOKA You also say that you learnt from reliable sources that a group of boys had crossed the border into Botswana. Did the headmaster tell you that, who was this reliable source? MR MAJOVA The headmaster only said that he heard from reliable sources, but they have gone over the boundary. MS SOOKA You mention that after that the police started harassing you. Could you tell us what the form of harassment was. MR MAJOVA I remember one time they took me out of the church. We went into the house. They took me from there into prison. I slept there. They choked me that I must tell them the truth. I was so embarrassed, thinking what are the children going to say about me, being their teacher, say their teacher has been closed in a prison. MS SOOKA How long were you kept in the prison? MR MAJOVA The whole day. I slept there from - they put me in about 12 o'clock. I was released the following day at KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 5 MR MAJOVA four o'clock. MS SOOKA Could you tell us what the name of - was it a police station or a prison? MR MAJOVA Which place, the prison? MS SOOKA When they took you where they choked you, did they take you to a police station or did they take you to a prison? MR MAJOVA Yes, they took me to the police station. Some water was poured over my body and some instruments were put onto my body. MS SOOKA Did they shock you with electric shocks? MR MAJOVA Yes, they choked me. MS SOOKA Did this happen continuously? MR MAJOVA No, they just did that that time, for about 30 minutes and they stopped it. MS SOOKA What happened after that? MR MAJOVA Later on in the day they took me back in their car. MS SOOKA What were they - during all of this, what questions were they asking you? Were they asking you about your son? MR MAJOVA They said where is my child, I know where he is. MS SOOKA: During the time that your son was away, did you ever hear from him? MR MAJOVA No, he never wrote. MS SOOKA So the first time you heard from him was in - you say that you heard that he was in Tanganyika? That was in 1985? MR MAJOVA Yes, we heard that he was somewhere in Tanganyika. MS SOOKA Where did you hear that from? KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 6 MR MAJOVA MR MAJOVA From certain boys out at Soweto. MS SOOKA Were you searching for him all this time? MR MAJOVA I was trying to find out where could I really get him. MS SOOKA I just want to check one thing with you. You say that you got a call in 1991 that you must go to Krugersdorp, but in your statement you say 1994. So I just want to check which is the correct date. Was it 1991 or 1994? MR MAJOVA 1994, I think when we went to Krugersdorp ... I have got it in the statement, perhaps I might be making a mistake with the dates. MS SOOKA In your statement it is ... (intervention). MR MAJOVA But I remember at Krugersdorp, when we were reading that plaque, that was opened by OR Thambo. MS SOOKA Do you want to tell us how many names there were on that plaque? MR MAJOVA But there were not more than ten. MS SOOKA And what did it actually say on the plaque? MR MAJOVA Their anniversary, the wedding and - Anniversary Monument in honour of the following heroes: Watson Majova, unveiled by Comrade OR Thambo, 15 December 1991, yes, that was the date. There were many, but I only wrote my son's. MS SOOKA Tatta, who had asked you to come to Krugersdorp? Who telephoned you? MR MAJOVA It was just a phone, they just phoned us. I don't know, I wanted to know who was phoning and the person said do you want information or do you want my name. I said I want the information. So he said accept information as I put it to you, you must go to Krugersdorp. MS SOOKA Were you relieved at that time that when you knew KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 7 MR MAJOVA when you read the plaque, that at least you knew that he was dead? How did you feel about that? MR MAJOVA I wanted to know more about this plaque. That's why I went to the police at Krugersdorp, at Kagiso. But I got no information. MS SOOKA In Rustenberg also you got no real information, except the inquest number. MR MAJOVA Well, most of the police there, they told us that they were not there at that time. There was no station at Thabani, but they heard about the incident of the house that was bulldozed by the Bophuthatswana police and the police from Rustenberg, because they couldn't get these children out of the house. MS SOOKA Tatta, I just want to make sure, you say then that you then heard from these police that there were these boys in the house and that the house was then bulldozed with the boys inside the house. MR MAJOVA Yes. MS SOOKA And this was done by the Bophuthatswana police and the Rustenberg police. MR MAJOVA Yes, it was done by the police, the Bophuthatswana police and they could not get these children out of the house, and they were not folding their hands, they were shooting. So we had the police shooting from outside and these boys shooting from inside. We realised that they are unable to take them out. They bulldozed the house and it fell on them. MS SOOKA Tatta, you mention that you went to SAFFAS undertakers, also to find out where these boys had been buried, and they weren't able to help you either. What did they tell you there? KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 8 MR MAJOVA MR MAJOVA They said we are closing now, it is time out, because it was about four o'clock. I had to come back - it is a distance between those places. Then we consulted the Shell House to find out if they know about this. I remember they came to us to Stilfontein also and they went to Rustenberg. We came back without any information. MR MAJOVA You mention that you went to Shell House. They were not able to assist you either. MR MAJOVA Well, they wanted to help, to try and find out where this grave is. But they have not done so up until now. MS SOOKA Just a few more questions. Your son, when he was in Hewton, was he a member of the ANC? MR MAJOVA Well, I am not sure. But it appears that it is so. MS SOOKA From the information that was given to you by the police in Lebani, how many boys died inside this house that was bulldozed? MR MAJOVA In that book they showed me four names. MS SOOKA The other boys, did you know them? MR MAJOVA No, I did not know them. MS SOOKA Tatta, at Stilfontein during that time, was there trouble in the township? MR MAJOVA No, there wasn't much but there was a bit of trouble. MS SOOKA Thank you, Tatta. I don't have any more questions. CHAIRPERSON Thank you very much. Any questions? Dr Randera? DR RANDERA Mr Majova, I just want to go back to your enquiries with Shell House. Were they aware of this KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 9 MR MAJOVA incident that took place in Thlabani and the killing of the children? MR MAJOVA When we got there we had the information there, they were there with us. DR RANDERA You gave them the information or did they also have a record of it? MR MAJOVA No, in Thlabani they had none, we went there together. When we were getting there for the second time, when I went there, we went to the Shell House people where they also gathered information. DR RANDERA Were you able to find out who actually put up the plaque? MR MAJOVA No. DR RANDERA The one other aspect, and I am sure our investigating team will have to make further enquiries, is that when you enquired at the police station in Thlabani, they actually had the name of your son in the book. That is what you say in your statement. I am asking this question because my understanding and what we have heard in these hearings, is that every person who left the country and joined the ANC, was given a pseudonym. So they all worked under different names in order to protect themselves in the underground. So what I am saying is, it is intriguing to me that if these four young people were killed in the house, how were they able to find out what their names were, and the real names? MR MAJOVA When my boy left down to Cape Town, he had the ID. I don't know then whether he had any other names. DR RANDERA Thank you very much, Sir. CHAIRPERSON Prof Meiring? PROF MEIRING Mr Majova, only a few questions. The first KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 10 MR MAJOVA question is, the three other young men who were killed in Rustenberg, were their graves found or is that also a mystery where they were buried? MR MAJOVA It appears their parents claimed their bodies. PROF MEIRING The parents claimed their bodies. MR MAJOVA It appeared so. PROF MEIRING Thank you very much. MR MAJOVA Because it appears they heard over the radio, but I didn't hear anything about that. PROF MEIRING Thank you. Another question. Was Watson your only child or do you have other children too? MR MAJOVA I have got other children, he is not the only one. PROF MEIRING How many children to you have? MR MAJOVA Six boys. PROF MEIRING Six boys? MR MAJOVA Six boys. PROF MEIRING Thank you so much. Then I want to ask of you, you said that Watson was born in 1958, he disappeared and probably was killed in 1985. That means that he was a young man of 27 when he died in Rustenberg. Do you know whether he already was married at that stage or whether there were children dependent upon him? MR MAJOVA As far as I was concerned he was not married. PROF MEIRING Not married and no children. MR MAJOVA Yes. PROF MEIRING Thank you very much. Thank you so much. CHAIRPERSON It is not easy to know what you say you tried to comfort people like yourself, Mr and Mrs Majova. What amazes me is that you look so normal and when you speak it doesn't seem unusual for you, you just mention that, you KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 11 MR MAJOVA just say "I was harassed", and it is only when Commissioner Sooka tried to find out what the form of harassment is, that you mention that you were in fact tortured. You haven't mentioned this as being extraordinary. I myself and I think of all us kept saying that our country is in fact an extraordinary country, that it can have people like yourselves, people who can remain whole, despite this deep pain. I mean, it is not only that you lost a son, you don't know where your son is buried and you have had to run around trying to find out the truth and you still haven't really got the truth and you are hoping that the Commission may be able to assist you. But we just want to say we thank God for people like you, that you haven't gone mad. You have not even said here, I mean, all you are asking for, is to be able to find the remains of your son so that you can give him a proper burial. You have not spoken about anger. You have not spoken about taking revenge. Maybe people in other communities get to take it too much for granted. I want to say thank you, we want to say thank you to God for people like you, that we can have people who have suffered as much as you have suffered and that you do not seem to have a desire for revenge. So we pray that God will continue to strengthen you and that God will help us in the Commission to find out the truth about your son, and that the one thing that you long for you may be able to give your son a decent burial. Thank you. KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG