hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1996-09-24 KLERKSDORP 2 MERIAM MMOLAWA 01530 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55408&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/klerks/mmolawa.htm DR RANDERA Mrs Mmolawa, good morning and welcome to you. Can you hear me? MRS MMOLAWA Yes, Sir. DR RANDERA Are you comfortable? MRS MMOLAWA Yes, Sir. DR RANDERA Mrs Mmolawa, can you please introduce the young man who is accompanying you this morning? MRS MMOLAWA That's my son, Sir. DR RANDERA Thank you. MRS MMOLAWA Ezekiel Mmolawa. DR RANDERA Okay. I welcome Ezekiel too. Mrs Mmolawa, will you please stand to take the oath. MERIAM MMOLAWA (Duly sworn, states). DR RANDERA Mrs Mmolawa, Adv Denzil Potgieter is going to be helping you in telling your story and I hand over to him. Thank you. ADV POTGIETER Thank you, Dr Randera. Good morning, Mrs Mmolawa. Welcome again. Can I just find out, we have a statement from yourself and it concerns the torture and detention of your son, Ezekiel who is with you today. But I don't have in my possession a statement from Ezekiel himself. Did he actually give a statement to the Commission or did he not? KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 2 M MMOLAWA MRS MMOLAWA He didn't do that, it is me who did that. ADV POTGIETER And insofar as you are concerned, you have really only heard what happened to him, you only heard about the torture. Not so? MRS MMOLAWA Yes, that is true. ADV POTGIETER That has in fact occurred to me when I read through your statement, and I was thinking that Ezekiel is obviously the best person to tell us what happened. It depends on what the Chairperson's view is, but it might be a similar case to the earlier one where we might have to take the testimony of Ezekiel, but before we deal with that, will he be able, if the Chairperson were to allow that, would he be able to give us testimony today? Is he in a position to tell us today, is there anything wrong with him? MRS MMOLAWA He will be able to do that, Sir. ADV POTGIETER Perhaps just a minute, perhaps we must just hear what the Chairperson's view is on this. CHAIRPERSON I think that as Ezekiel is here today, it would be in a sense an incomplete story if whilst we are having him her, we are not able to hear from him directly. What I will however hsay is that that is subject to our statement-takers taking his statement immediately he gives his testimony. So you can swear him in, Faizel. DR RANDERA Can you hear me, Ezekiel? MR MMOLAWA Yes, Sir. DR RANDERA Can you please stand to take the oath. EZEKIEL MMOLAWA (Duly sworn, states). DR RANDERA Thank you, Ezekiel. ADV POTGIETER Thank you once again, Dr Randera, Chairperson. Mrs Mmolawa, I think let's start with you. We will take your evidence first and then Ezekiel can just fill KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 3 M MMOLAWA in the picture as to what exactly happened. Would you like to tell us about his arrest and when they took him away from home. MRS MMOLAWA It was in 1993, in June, it was on a Tuesday. White people came. They came to my home. They surrounded the whole house, at the front and at the back. They were kicking the doors and the windows. They were torching us with their torches at night whilst we were asleep. They told me to open. When they asked me to open they said they are police people. When I opened, White people entered the house with balaclavas. They entered roughly and they light us up with torches. Then they said we want your son. When I was still looking the Black one came again. That Black one, I halt him, he was a CID. Then I said Ezekiel is in the bedroom. Then they said he must put on his clothes quickly, because they want him. I asked them where they are taking him to. Then they told me that they are going to hit him. Then I was frightened and then I closed the door. The following day, it was in the morning, at about three o'clock, I went to investigate where he is. Then they said I should go to the police station, because they were having balaclavas I couldn't identify them. We went to the police station. At the police station they said my child is not there. Whilst I was preparing myself to come back they said they came back from Orkney, they come from the scrapyards. Then when I asked my son what he was doing there. He told me that they were beating him in the dark on the ear with the clips and fists. Then he had an ear problem. Then I took him to the doctor. They only kept him in the hospital for that day. They wanted bail of R100,00. I paid KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 4 M MMOLAWA that R100,00 bail. Thereafter the case ran for three days, but there were no court proceedings, they were just postponing the case. The court procedure completed in 1995, December. That's when the case ended. During that time I was taken him to various doctors. ADV POTGIETER Mrs Mmolawa, you live in Lebaleng, is it correct? MRS MMOLAWA Yes, Sir. ADV POTGIETER In June of 1993 what was the situation in the township like? In fact, to assist you, in your statement you refer to the shooting of Joe Olifant, it is a case that we will hear later on in the day. What was the situation like? MRS MMOLAWA The police were coming during the night. They were making it possible to make it safe for the principal. Then the following day it was that my son was arrested. ADV POTGIETER You seem to have referred to this in your statement, that there was a situation of unrest in the township at this time, in June 1993. It was shortly after the killing of Joel Olifant. MRS MMOLAWA That is immediately after the death of Olifant. The day after Joe Olifant's funeral. ADV POTGIETER The court case that your son, Ezekiel, was involved in, subsequently, what was that about? Was it about the burning of the school or what? MRS MMOLAWA They alleged that they were stoning the school. ADV POTGIETER What happened to that case? MRS MMOLAWA The case just ended somewhere, we don't know. ADV POTGIETER How old was Ezekiel in 1993 when KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 5 M MMOLAWA this happened? MRS MMOLAWA Can you repeat your question, Sir? ADV POTGIETER How old was Ezekiel in 1993 when this happened? MRS MMOLAWA He was 20 years old, Sir. ADV POTGIETER Thank you, Mrs Mmolawa. I am going to ask Ezekiel questions first and it might be that my colleagues would want to ask you some questions afterwards. But I am now going to ask for the microphone to be moved to Ezekiel and we will listen to his evidence. Ezekiel, morning, welcome. Can you hear me? MR MMOLAWA Yes, Sir. ADV POTGIETER Good. Now from the information in our possession here, it appears as if you were arrested at home on the 1st of June in 1993. Is that so? MRS MMOLAWA Yes, it is true, Sir. ADV POTGIETER And do you know the police that came to arrest you? In fact, your mother said that some of them were wearing balaclavas. MR MMOLAWA I don't know them, Sir. ADV POTGIETER There was also a, from your - from the testimony of your mother's it appears there was a Black policeman present as well, when you were arrested at home. Do you know him? MR MMOLAWA I know him, sir. ADV POTGIETER What is his name? MR MMOLAWA His name Sipetlo. Steve Sipetlo. ADV POTGIETER Was he a policeman where, at Makwassie, Makwassie police station? MR MMOLAWA He is a CID at Klerksdorp, Sir. ADV POTGIETER Now would you like to tell us, Ezekiel, what KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 6 M MMOLAWA happened when the police came to your house there and they took you away? Tell us exactly what happened. MR MMOLAWA When the police came to arrest me at home, we were many who were arrested. There was a house next-door, which is a double-storey house. I only heard the sounds of the vans. I thought maybe the Kombi is for the owner of tha house. After that I heard many sounds. When I looked outside I saw police vans and Kombis. Thereafter I went to my mother. I said people are wearing balaclavas and after that they knocked at the door and they broke the windows. Thereafter my mother opened the door for them and then they said they wanted Ezekiel. They came to my bedroom and they found me there, I was asleep. Then the CID whom I know, then said to me come, let's go. He was together with other White CIDs. After that one boy came to the police station. When I get into the Kombi ... We went to look for Sete, he wasn't at home. Then we left for the police station. They filled their car with petrol and they drove to the scrapyard. They assaulted us in a very dark room. They were hitting me on my ears, but I cannot identify who it was hitting me on the ears. At about six o'clock in the morning they wanted us to write our statements. They said that we should agree that we broke the principal's house. I said to them no, I was present in the township, but I was not present when the house was stoned. They sent us back to Makwassie police station and they said R300,00 bail or three days. ADV POTGIETER Were you then charged? MR MMOLAWA Yes, I was charged. ADV POTGIETER What did they say what charge was it, what KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 7 M MMOLAWA was it you were supposed to have done? MR MMOLAWA They said I was stoning the police station, but I must say I can't remember what the name was, but the police in the township pointed out people whom they alleged they have seen throwing stones, and one policeman from Makwassie pointed me out. He was not present when a group of CIDs got into the house, he remained in the Kombi. I know him. He stays at Motseng, in Makwassie. ADV POTGIETER And what happened to the charge against you, what happened to the case? MR MMOLAWA We were given five years of hard labour outside. ADV POTGIETER Now when this happened in 1993, what were you doing, were you at school, were you working? MR MMOLAWA I am self-employed, I wasn't at school. ADV POTGIETER And we have heard that there was some unrest in the township at that time, that was just after the shooting incident involving Joel Olifant. MR MMOLAWA We stay in one street with the person who has been shot, in the same street. ADV POTGIETER Were you politically involved, politically active? MR MMOLAWA Yes, I was active. ADV POTGIETER What sort of a structure, what organisation? MR MMOLAWA The ANC. ADV POTGIETER Now can we just come to the incident where you were assaulted. Did you say that you were taken to the scrapyard? MR MMOLAWA Yes, they took us to the scrapyard. ADV POTGIETER Where is that? MR MMOLAWA At Orkney. KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 8 M MMOLAWA ADV POTGIETER Do you know, was it the police that took you there? MR MMOLAWA The CIDs, with balaclavas took us there. I know only one of them who was the Black man, but there were three other Blacks whom I do not know. ADV POTGIETER Was this Steve Sepetlo that you referred to earlier, was he also present in this group that took you to the scrapyard? MR MMOLAWA He was present when they took me to the scrapyard. ADV POTGIETER And there you say that you were assaulted, you were beaten on your ears. With what were you beaten on your ears? MR MMOLAWA They were using their hands, they were slapping me on the ears. ADV POTGIETER Were you assaulted in any other way? MR MMOLAWA No, they were just using their hands to slap me. ADV POTGIETER What was the consequence of that assault, what was the consequence of being beaten on your ears? MR MMOLAWA My ear was badly injured, the ear-drum. ADV POTGIETER And what is the condition of your ears at present? MR MMOLAWA It is not that fine yet, because I usually have pain in my ear. ADV POTGIETER What is your hearing like today? MR MMOLAWA At times that ear-drum just closes itself, I don't hear anything, but at times I do hear. ADV POTGIETER Have you instituted any claims against the police for the assault and the incident? MR MMOLAWA No, Sir. KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 9 M MMOLAWA ADV POTGIETER Is there anything else that you wish to add to your evidence before I finish off? MR MMOLAWA No, Sir, there is nothing I want to say further. ADV POTGIETER Thank you very much. Thank you, Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON Thank you. Dr Randera will ask you some questions. DR RANDERA Ezekiel, I just want to come back to that night, both you and your mother say that everybody wore balaclavas and that your mother recognised the voice of one person and you recognised the voice of that same person. This person called Steve. Now did these people actually identify themselves at any time, either at your house or in the scrapyard, in the room where you were tortured, as policemen or CID people or whatever? MR MMOLAWA They didn't introduce themselves in any way. I only saw Steve because I know that he is a CID. Then I thought that all of them are CIDs. DR RANDERA Did you see Steve or you recognised his voice? MR MMOLAWA I saw him, Sir. DR RANDERA Now I just want to also ask you about the court case. You say that you were charged. What was the charge? MR MMOLAWA They say my charge is breaking the school quarters where the principal was staying. DR RANDERA And you were sentenced to five years? MR MMOLAWA Yes, Sir. DR RANDERA How much of that time did you actually serve? MR MMOLAWA Five years punishment. DR RANDERA It was a suspended sentence, was it? MR MMOLAWA I was outside, Sir. KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 10 M MMOLAWA DR RANDERA I want to come back to this incident about the principal and the school. It seems like the youth or the comrades actually targeted schools at that time. Is that right? MR MMOLAWA The people who attacked the school are the students. DR RANDERA You were falsely accused? MR MMOLAWA Yes, I was falsely accused because I was not even there. DR RANDERA Thank you. PROF MEIRING Ezekiel, just two short questions for our records. When did you leave school, at what standard? MR MMOLAWA I left school in 1983 becaue I was sick. I was doing Std 4 at that time. PROF MEIRING You say that you are self-employed. What do you do for a living? MR MMOLAWA I am doing electronic and welding, electrician. PROF MEIRING Did you receive training for that? MR MMOLAWA No, Sir. CHAIRPERSON Ezekiel, I just want to ask you two questions. When you were charged, were you charged by yourself or in a group with a whole number of other people? MR MMOLAWA I was in a group of other people, we were six all of us. CHAIRPERSON Were you charged with public violence or were you charged with breaking and entering property? Could you be more specific? MR MMOLAWA It was public violence. CHAIRPERSON How much time did you actually spend in jail? Not your sentence, how long did you spend in jail. MR MMOLAWA I only stayed three days. KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 11 M MMOLAWA CHAIRPERSON And you had a suspended sentence, that if you did that again you would go to jail for five years. MR MMOLAWA That's true. CHAIRPERSON Thank you. Thank you - Dr Randera wants to ask another question. DR RANDERA Sorry, Ezekiel, who represented you in that court case, who was the lawyer? MR MMOLAWA That's Schoeman, Sir. DR RANDERA Thank you. CHAIRPERSON Thank you, Ezekiel, and thank you, Mrs Mmolawa for coming today. Thank you for sharing that story with us. We know there was a time in our country when people were charged, youngsters, particularly were charged with public violence and thrown into jail. And that a lot of things were done to them and many of them bear the scars of that today. In your case, Ezekiel, has a problem with his ear, which will probably be there for a very, very long time. It is the legacy of the past that we have actually gone through. What is disquieting however, is that we rely on certain institutions to protect us, and the fact that were nameless and faceless people who came into your homes, into your communities and who took police away, means that it is very, very difficult for us to understand why these things happened in that particular way. But one of the jobs that we have to do, is to make sure that people are never able to act in that way again, that if they come to your home to take you away, they must have the proper documentation and they must have the proper authorisation to do these things. Part of the job in our country is rebuilding all these structures. KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 12 M MMOLAWA Your story shows that lots of things happened which even we don't really know about. We will try to see what can be done about Ezekiel's ear, but thank you for sharing that with us. KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG