hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1996-09-25 KLERKSDORP 3 SIMON RABESI PHIRI 1567 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55424&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/klerks/phiri.htm CHAIRPERSON Mr Simon Rabesi Phiri. Mr Tom Manthata will help him with his testimony. Mr Phiri, can you hear me? MR PHIRI The speaker's mike is not on. CHAIRPERSON Can I repeat it? Mr Phiri, can you hear me? MR PHIRI I can hear you. CHAIRPERSON You are comfortable and ready to tell your story. MR PHIRI I am ready. CHAIRPERSON You have brought somebody sitting at your right-hand, will you introduce him to us, please? MR PHIRI This is my sister's child, Jack Motomo from Venstersdorp. CHAIRPERSON Mr Motomo, welcome to you too. Thank you for coming. Now Mr Phiri, before you give your testimony, can you take the oath, please? Will you stand? SIMON RABESI PHIRI (Duly sworn, states). CHAIRPERSON Thank you very much. Now Mr Phiri, I hand you over to Mr Tom Manthata, who will guide you through your story. MR MANTHATA Mr Phiri, we welcome you and your little brother. Now tell us, Mr Phiri, who are you, what do you do? MR PHIRI I am Simon Phiri from Venstersdorp. I am married, I am 30 years old, I have two children. I have a tuck shop KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 2 S R PHIRI at home, and that is what I am doing. MR MANTHATA What do you sell in your tuck shop? MR PHIRI I am selling fruits and vegetables and chicken pieces. MR MANTHATA Before you were running this shop, what were you doing? MR PHIRI I was working at West Deep mine and worked on a contract and then we were retrenched and I went back home and I opened this small business. MR MANTHATA What is your wife doing? MR PHIRI She is not working, she is a sickly person. MR MANTHATA Are your children at school? MR PHIRI Yes, they are schooling. My father passed away, I think it is two years back. MR MANTHATA When you talk of your father, are you referring to your brothers and sisters? MR PHIRI No, I am referring to my father. MR MANTHATA Now are you telling us that you are responsible for the whole family now? Are you not married? MR PHIRI I am married. MR MANTHATA How many children do you have? MR PHIRI I have two kids. MR MANTHATA Can you please carry on and tell us about the assault on you by the AWB people? MR PHIRI On the 10th of May 1991 I was from the place of work, heading for my home. I had a car that time. I parked my car close to a house and I went to see my friends. I came back very late from my friends. I didn't want to wake up my family because I knew my father would be angry with me. I decided to sleep in the car. I said well, very early in the morning I will wake up and prepare myself for the next day. KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 3 S R PHIRI At about four o'clock, as I was sleeping, I was nearly dreaming and I heard people speaking outside. These people were speaking Afrikaans. As I was listening I could hear that these people were still standing where they were, and I thought maybe they were working at Ventersdorp High School. As I was listening to them, I heard Eugene Terre'blanche's voice. He was giving them a command, and as to what should they do when they attack people. After giving them those orders and commands, they came and I was just lying in the car, with eyes open, because I wanted to see what was going to happen. They jumped into the yard and as I was listening they started attacking the house. I was in the car. I couldn't then get out of the car. After they attacked the house, they came out and they stood next to the car. They smashed the back window. The back window of the car and they came to the windscreen. Because it was too hard, they hit it with a knobkierie twice and they were speaking and I could hear who they were. Because the other one said Piet, this thing is too hard to crack, and Piet was giving him an answer and he said Koos, can you please stab the tyres. As I was looking, Koos stabbed the - he punctured the tyres. I was so scared, I didn't know what was coming next. I thought they would turn the car and burn it. They just laughed and they jumped over the fence and they went into the veld shouting "AWB, AWB". I got out of the car as soon as they were gone and I got into the house. Everything was not in an ordinary order, and I wanted to see members of my family. I couldn't see them, because they were under the furniture that was lying all over. I saw drops of blood and I followed these KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 4 S R PHIRI drops of blood until I was in the street. I saw my mother lying and her head was injured, her whole body was also injured. I picked her up. I took her back into the house. My hands were full of her blood. The police came at about six o'clock. On their arrival I requested them to take them to the hospital. They didn't help us. They said we should come and report at about two o'clock so that they can take our statements. The local ANC people came home and they called their Klerksdorp office and from Klerksdorp a car was brought to transport them to Klerksdorp Hospital. We cleaned the house and we reorganised everything in the house and thereafter we went to the police station to give our statements. But before we could give the statements, the police were teasing us, telling us that we are the squatters and they cannot just go out of their way to help the squatters. I went to David Sigotho who was a CID at Klerksdorp. He welcome me and I gave him my statement. After those few days, it was on a Monday, I heard that the AWB men have been arrested. On Tuesday they were released on R50,00 bail. After two weeks I went back to the police station. I wanted to know what was going to happen to the damage we suffered. The police said to me they do not have any help of any kind and what we should do, we should get ourselves private attorneys. That was when we gave our statement to the Truth Commission, because we are lost. We don't know what to do and where to go. MR MANTHATA I am listening to you, Mr Phiri. What time was it when this thing happened? MR PHIRI It was about four o'clock Saturday morning. MR MANTHATA What time did you leave your friends? KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 5 S R PHIRI MR PHIRI It was at about ten o'clock at night. MR MANTHATA You are saying that you parked next to the house but in your statement you have written a shack. Were you in a squatter area? MR PHIRI Yes, we were in a squatter camp. MR MANTHATA You and the whole family? MR PHIRI Yes. MR MANTHATA Where did you stay before you moved to the squatter camp? MR PHIRI We were renting a municipal house. There was a place called Detening(?). We were given 14 days to be out of the premises, because my father was retrenched and we had to look for an alternative place. MR MANTHATA Were you staying in that house because your father was working for that company? MR PHIRI Yes. MR MANTHATA How many were you at home at that time? MR PHIRI Five girls. I am the only boy, we were six. MR MANTHATA How many rooms were in the shack? MR PHIRI Are you referring to a shack, Sir? It was a four-roomed shack. MR MANTHATA You got out of the car and you went into the house and people were lying under - the furniture was on top of them. MR PHIRI Yes, the furniture fell on them, actually. Because everything was so disorganised in the house. MR MANTHATA If you say the furniture fell on them, did you physically lift the furniture to lift them loose? MR PHIRI Yes, because after picking up my mother outside I went into the house and I helped those who were in trouble. My father was already injured, and his leg was KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 6 S R PHIRI crippled. MR MANTHATA You say the people who were speaking spoke in Afrikaans and you could identify that it was Terre'Blanche. Were you used to his voice? MR PHIRI Yes, I know him, I was born in Ventersdorp, I know his voice. MR MANTHATA If you say you know his voice, have you been to his meetings? MR PHIRI No, I have never been to their meetings where he addresses his people. MR MANTHATA But now tell me, how did it come about that you knew his voice? MR PHIRI During holidays I was working temporarily at a filling station at Ventersdorp and he used to frequent that garage to fill his car with petrol. We would talk, we would chat as I was on duty. MR MANTHATA Were they attacking only your shack or were they attacking all the shacks in the area? MR PHIRI They were supposed to attack all the shacks marked with, because as they were standing next to the yard, he was telling them hit only shacks marked with an X. MR MANTHATA What was this X? What does this X symbolise actually? MR PHIRI I do not know, but I think the X was an indication of an attack, because after talking about these Xs, we were attacked, but people with ordinary numbers were not attacked at all. MR MANTHATA Those who were not attacked, what kind of people were they? Were they not staying in shacks? MR PHIRI They were also staying in shacks. MR MANTHATA Did you go to the councillors to investigate KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 7 S R PHIRI as to why were your shacks destroyed and others left? MR PHIRI We only heard rumours that we have placed ourselves in that area, that is the reason for the attack. Because they didn't want us to get into the township and the ANC forcibly moved us to the location and they gave us sites. MR MANTHATA If you say they didn't allow you to stay in the township, are you referring to the councillors? MR PHIRI We used to call them blockmen. They didn't want us to reside within the township. MR MANTHATA I want to know, were they not elected by the community or did they elect themselves? MR PHIRI They were just thinking for themselves, they didn't want anything to do with the ANC, because the ANC gave us the right to stay in that township. MR MANTHATA On the day of the court hearing, were you present when these AWB men were fined? MR PHIRI I was the only person who went to court. MR MANTHATA What did you do on their arrival, or what did you say? MR PHIRI I enquired from the police as to what steps should be taken and they said to me the AWB men said they did not hit the shacks. There was a card belonging to Piet Skiet Rudolph who was found ten metres from where I stay. That is to what they feared. MR MANTHATA You have come to the TRC because you say the people from the ANC cannot take this matter further, or is it because you did not go through in the court of law? MR PHIRI We are here to seek assistance with lawyers. We didn't go much to the ANC for investigations. MR MANTHATA So you are here to request the TRC to get you KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 8 S R PHIRI a lawyer? MR PHIRI Yes. MR MANTHATA How many of you need a lawyer, how many families? MR PHIRI I can't remember the number, but the assaulted people came together and would like to get a lawyer who will represent all of us, not me alone. MR MANTHATA You see, we do not work hand-in-hand with the courts of law. Maybe you should tell us your needs besides the lawyer, as people who have been assaulted. MR PHIRI Are you referring to our request from the Truth Commission? MR MANTHATA I am trying to tell you that your request of a lawyer or an attorney is not within our policy. When people go to court they do it on their own will as a private matter. Now seeing that you didn't know beforehand that we don't work with such matters, is there a request you want to make to the TRC? MR PHIRI We request the Truth Commission to help us trace them. They should come and confess what they did. They should come and we will forgive them. But what remains behind, I lost my parent, because of their actions. MR MANTHATA I am listening to your story. In other words you are telling me that if we can get hold of these people, you would be prepared to speak to them? MR PHIRI Yes. MR MANTHATA I don't have any more questions, Mr Phiri. DR RADERA Prof Meiring? PROF MEIRING Mr Phiri, you just said that you lost your parent because of this. Do you refer to your mother? MR PHIRI I am referring to my mother. KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 9 S R PHIRI PROF MEIRING Can you tell us what happened to her afterwards? Because you said that she was eventually taken to the hospital by the ANC who sent a car from Klerksdorp. But then, what happened, was she treated at the hospital and return home or did she die in hospital? MR PHIRI She went to the hospital for treatment. She spent two weeks at the hospital in Klerksdorp. She was a person who cooked for us at home, who did everything for us. She is still alive, but she cannot work, because she is now crippled. PROF MEIRING Thank you. So you lost her in the sense that she is crippled, that she cannot work any more. MR PHIRI That's correct. PROF MEIRING Thank you. There is another thing I wanted to ask. You say that when the people entered your house they not only created havoc, but they took the music system and the television. Was that eventually returned to you or did you lose that? MR PHIRI They have been gone forever, Sir. PROF MEIRING Thank you. Then another thing I wanted to ask, is that you mentioned the names of Mr Eugene Terre'Blanche and Mr Piet Skiet Rudolph. Are you very positive that they were there on the scene? MR PHIRI I am certain they were there. PROF MEIRING At the end of your testimony you tell of the incident when the police caught the perpetrators and eventually they were bailed out for R50,00 each. Were these two gentlemen among the people who were bailed out? MR PHIRI Are you referring to Eugene Terre'Blanche, Sir? PROF MEIRING That's right. MR PHIRI Yes, they were among the people. KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 10 S R PHIRI PROF MEIRING Also Mr Rudolph. MR PHIRI Yes. PROF MEIRING Thank you. And then a last question I would like to ask of you, is you say that Mr Terre'Blanche claimed that some of the people of the shacks broke into their houses. Was that the reason they gave for the attack on the shacks, that the people from the shacks, that they broke into the houses of the local community or how do we understand that? MR PHIRI There is a place called Goedgevonden towards Rustenberg direction. They were actually planning to attack the people at that area. We were just innocent. PROF MEIRING They gave no reason why your community was attacked? MR PHIRI We were just attacked for nothing. There was no reason given for the attack. What the police told us, was that we have put ourselves in that area, illegally. PROF MEIRING I have no more questions. DR RADERA Thank you, Prof Meiring. Mr Phiri, I just want to understand this clearly, I am sure everybody wants to understand it. You were saying that it is a piece of land that was there, that was empty. Some people were given permission to put their homes up, others were not given permission. Is that right? MR PHIRI Yes, that's correct. DR RADERA And the ones who were not given permission, their houses were marked with an X? MR PHIRI That's correct. DR RADERA And then at four o'clock in the morning, in mid-winter, and it is cold, you are sleeping in the car, it is totally dark - or were there lights around? KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 11 S R PHIRI MR PHIRI Yes, there were lights. The car was parked behind the shack and when this light was on, I was lying and they couldn't see in the car, because in winter it is a bit misty, and they couldn't see clearly inside the car. DR RADERA Thank you. And the mentioning of Mr Terre'Blanche and Mr Rudolph, is it also a fact that you knew they were part of the people were charged afterwards? MR PHIRI They were found guilty after they attacked us. I didn't quite understand your question. DR RADERA I am saying that did you recognise them from their voices or did you recognise them from the fact that they were charged afterwards? MR PHIRI I heard Terre'Blanche as he was giving them instructions and Piet Skiet Rudolph was after they tried to break the windscreen, because it was too hard. They were conversing as to how to break it and ten metres from the yard, we found Piet Skiet Rudolph's card. DR RADERA Okay. Was there anybody who was killed on that night, Mr Phiri? There were many homes that were attacked, was there anybody who got killed? MR PHIRI Nobody was killed, we were just assaulted. DR RADERA Now you say these people were found guilty. Is that right? MR PHIRI They said they were not guilty because they did not attack, they actually mentioned that their offices were broken into. That is the story they told the police. DR RADERA But was there a court case? MR PHIRI We didn't meet with them in court, they went to court and I followed them. I wanted the police to give me information as to what was going to happen with our case. DR RADERA And in court, were they found guilty? KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 12 S R PHIRI MR PHIRI Not, because they were released. DR RADERA Okay. Thank you, Mr Phiri. Mr Phiri, thank you very much for coming all the way from Ventersdorp today. Our investigative unit will certainly make more enquiries about what happened on that night and we will come back to you and to the other people who are going to be giving their stories today. Thank you very much. MR PHIRI I also thank you. KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG