hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1996-09-26 KLERKSDORP 4 SEIPATI HILDA SEPHAPO 01521 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55428&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/klerks/sephapo.htm CHAIRPERSON Mrs Sephapo, good morning. Can you hear me? MRS SEPHAPO Good morning, sir. CHAIRPERSON Are you comfortable? MRS SEPHAPO Yes, I am comfortable. CHAIRPERSON Good. Mrs Sephapo, you have brought another lady with you this morning. Can you please introduce her to us as well? MRS SEPHAPO This is Sipho Molloy, my neighbour. CHAIRPERSON I welcome Mrs Molloy as well and thank her for coming and giving you support through this trying statement that you are going to be telling us about now. Mrs Sephapo, you are from Kanana. Kanana is just outside Orkney, which isn't very far from Klerksdorp. It is also a mining community, and you have come to tell us about the shooting and killing of your son, Michael Majara Sephapo. mr Tom Manthata, who is sitting on my left is going to be helping you as you tell your story. Before I hand over to him, would you please stand to take the oath. SEIPATI HILDA SEPHAPO (Duly sworn, states). CHAIRPERSON Thank you, ma'am. Mr Manthata. MR MANTHATA Good morning, Hilda. Mrs Hilda, you are welcomed and we also welcome your neighbour. Can you briefly tell us who you are? MRS SEPHAPO I am Hilda Seipati Sephapo. I got married Mr KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 2 S H SEPHAPO Sephapo in 1971 and I am blessed with six children. This man left me in 1989. MR MANTHATA Mr Sephapo passed away? MRS SEPHAPO Yes, he passed away. MR MANTHATA Are you employed? MRS SEPHAPO I am not employed, I am only doing a temporary job at my cousin's shop. MR MANTHATA Are the six children at school? MRS SEPHAPO Yes, all of them are at school. MR MANTHATA What standard is the eldest one? MRS SEPHAPO The eldest one is at the University of Witwatersrand, with the help of a bursary. MR MANTHATA And the last born? MRS SEPHAPO The last born is doing Std 1. MR MANTHATA Thank you. There is progress in your family. What can you tell us about Michael Majara? MRS SEPHAPO Michael Majara Sephapo said to us he is going to the shop. We didn't have a shop nearby. He had to go to a faraway shop. At half past seven there were gun shots. That was the last time we heard of him. The next day my brother fetched me from work and he said Michael had been shot, he was at the Klerksdorp mortuary and he was identified by another woman. We took an initiative to go and make sure whether he was the person identified as my child. He was shot and he tried to crawl to a nearby house, House No 341, but the police fetched him in the house and they kicked him. I don't remember whether it was the soldiers or the police who kicked him. MR MANTHATA Who told you that he was kicked? MRS SEPHAPO The owner of the house told me that he was kicked by those people. KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 3 S H SEPHAPO MR MANTHATA Didn't she tell you what happened thereafter? MRS SEPHAPO She told me that they kicked him and they took him with them. MR MANTHATA You were told that your son was at the mortuary since his disappearance. Didn't your neighbour tell you that he was taken by certain people? MRS SEPHAPO We only heard the next day, because we were so scared to go out into the streets. MR MANTHATA What was happening in the streets? What was frightening you? MRS SEPHAPO The soldiers' Hippos were driving around and people were running as they heard the gun shots. MR MANTHATA If I understood you well, was it the time of boycotts? MRS SEPHAPO Yes. MR MANTHATA These of course were organised by the youth and the school children? MRS SEPHAPO Yes, he was also a school child. MR MANTHATA Was he schooling at that time? MRS SEPHAPO Yes, he was doing Std 9. He was the first born. MR MANTHATA Was he involved in the youth organisations? MRS SEPHAPO No, I didn't know that he was involved. MR MANTHATA What did you do when you found him at the mortuary? MRS SEPHAPO We requested his corpse to take it to AVBOB. He wasn't alone. There were many. MR MANTHATA Are you saying there were many corpses? MRS SEPHAPO Yes. MR MANTHATA Do you have an idea of how many were there? MRS SEPHAPO Four of them I knew, that was on the 4th of KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 4 S H SEPHAPO March. MR MANTHATA Were they also from Kanana? MRS SEPHAPO Yes. MR MANTHATA Did you meet as parents to investigate as to what happened? MRS SEPHAPO No, we didn't have time to go to the police to seek help, we only came together as the parents of Kanana to bury our children. MR MANTHATA Were you scared to go to the police? MRS SEPHAPO Yes, we were very scared. MR MANTHATA Didn't you have leaders in your township to go to the police on your behalf? MRS SEPHAPO No, not even one of them. MR MANTHATA Now the church leaders? MRS SEPHAPO One minister of religion, he was a Father at the Roman Catholic Church was helping us. MR MANTHATA Were they not buried by the Minister? MRS SEPHAPO One Roman Catholic minister came to bury the whole group. MR MANTHATA Did you go anywhere for help after this incident as to what was the cause of the death? MRS SEPHAPO No, we didn't go anywhere. MR MANTHATA The youth leaders that were organising the boycotts, didn't they come to help you? Didn't they go to Pretoria or to Gauteng to get you a lawyer? MRS SEPHAPO No. MR MANTHATA I will stop it just there. Thank you. PROF MEIRING Mrs Sephapo, just a few questions about your own circumstances for our records. You are living with your children at the moment, all of them? MRS SEPHAPO Yes, Sir. KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 5 S H SEPHAPO PROF MEIRING Do you live in your own house? MRS SEPHAPO Yes, Sir. PROF MEIRING But you have no fixed income, just the temporary job you have? Or do you get a pension or any money from elsewhere? MRS SEPHAPO No, I don't get any grant. PROF MEIRING Thank you very much. CHAIRPERSON Fazel Randera? DR RANDERA Mrs Sephapo, I note first of all that the night that your son was killed, was the same night that Mrs Khiba's son disappeared. I would also just like to clarify. You say that when you went to the mortuary, in talking to Mr Manthata you said there were four corpses there. Whereas in your own statement you said there was only one other corpse. Was that a mistake? I am talking about the statement you made to our statement-takers. Do you want me to repeat the question? MRS SEPHAPO Yes, please. DR RANDERA All right. In the statement that you made to our statement-takers, you said there was only one other corpse. But just now when you spoke to Mr Manthata you said there were four other people. Was that a mistake when you spoke to our statement-takers? MRS SEPHAPO I counted the three Kanana boys that were also shot dead. DR RANDERA My last question is to do with laying a charge. Did you go and lay a charge at the police station about the death of your son? MRS SEPHAPO I didn't go to the police to lay charges, because I assumed it was a tragedy for all of us. DR RANDERA Thank you very much, ma'am. KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 6 S H SEPHAPO MRS SEPHAPO I also thank you. CHAIRPERSON Just further to the question that Dr Randera asked. Were there any court cases, court proceedings, an inquest, for example in connection with the deaths? Your son and the other three deaths? MRS SEPHAPO No court case, no inquest. CHAIRPERSON Did you make any statements to the police in connection with the death of your son? MRS SEPHAPO No, I didn't give them the statement. CHAIRPERSON They didn't bring you a summons, for instance, to come and appear in court at any stage? MRS SEPHAPO I didn't get any summons. CHAIRPERSON Thank you. Tom Manthata? MR MANTHATA I don't have a question, it is just a piece of information I want to share with you. As we go around the country listening to the stories, in 1986 in this same year of 1986, people died in KwaNdebele, nine of them were killed. That is why we are asking you about the leadership. Did they give you the condition in the country at that time? That was my statement, thank you. CHAIRPERSON Thank you, Tom. Mrs Sephapo, it remains for me to thank you for coming and to thank you for giving evidence, telling us what happened. This was a particularly fateful day in Kanana as Dr Randera referred to earlier already. That was also the same evening on which the son of Mr Khiba who testified earlier this year. You have told us about at least three other persons that were killed, shot and killed, it would appear, together with your son. So it seems to have been a particularly bad day in Kanana. I must add that this kind of violation, civilians being shot and killed by members of the security forces, particularly the KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 7 S H SEPHAPO police, is a very frequent and common occurrence, common type of case that the Commission deals with. One is over and over shocked by the senseless loss of life, and in some instances, and we heard a lot of testimony in this sitting, about what one can only describe as lawlessness on the part of police, particularly. Now nothing that one can say can really compensate for the loss of life. Particularly the loss of life of a child, a son. We appreciate and we understand the grief that goes with that. That one cannot really bring back the life. But a lot of people sacrificed and sacrificed their lives. It is perhaps a small consolation that all of those sacrifices have added up eventually to what we see unfolding today. A promise of a better life, a promise of a better future, a promise of eventually a community free of conflict, free of violence. Perhaps it is a small consolation that your son has lost his life under those circumstances. But we want to thank you for coming and sharing your story with us. Go well. MRS SEPHAPO I thank you. KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG