hrvtrans 1 M X KHULUSA, HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1996-11-12 KRUGERSDORP 2 M X KHULUSA https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55437&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/krugers/khulusa.htm CHAIRPERSON Mr Khulusa, are your going to speak Xhosa or Soetho? Are you going to speak Xhosa or Swana? MR KHULUSA I cannot hear properly. CHAIRPERSON Number four. We welcome you Mr Khulusa after lunch. We are going to hand over to Dr Randera to administer the oath so that we can hear all about your story. DR RANDERA Mr Khulusa, good afternoon. If you will just stand to take the oath please. If you can just repeat after me. M X KHULUSA (Duly sworn in, states). DR RANDERA Thank you Mr Khulusa. Ms Seroke. CHAIRPERSON Mr Khulusa, you have come to tell us about the incident that took place in May 1991. That is when your car was destroyed by certain members of the IFP. Maybe you can just give us a brief explanation as to what was taking place at that time in Swanieville where you were staying up to the time where this incident took place. MR KHULUSA In 1991 that is in May just before we were attacked we saw Caspers on a Wednesday which came to the area at which we stay. That was before the attack. It was in the afternoon and there were two Caspers. There were certain people who were speaking Afrikaans as well as people who were speaking Zulu. We were told that we should sleep KRUGERSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 2 M X KHULUSA at eight o' clock. All of us should be asleep at eight. That was on a Wednesday before the Sunday of the attack. Then on a Thursday those Caspers came once more and they were saying the very same thing, that we should sleep at eight. There was a certain Afrikaner who was saying today you must sleep just like yesterday. The other one was translating it into Zulu. He was saying to us as you have already heard that you slept yesterday at eight and even tonight you are going to sleep at eight. They also came on a Friday and on that Saturday we told ourselves that we were going to rest and we were going to sleep. We slept on the Saturday. Then on a Sunday morning, I think it was at about half past six in the morning. I heard some gun shots very early in the morning. That is the day of the attack. I heard sound of gun fire in the morning. I hopped out of the bed and I went outside to investigate what was happening. When I looked up the area I saw some flames bellowing in the air. I also saw some smoke and I could hear some gun fire going on throughout that time. I went back into the house to wake up my wife and I told her as to what was happening outside. When I came back for the second time to see what was happening I noticed that the shack in front of me was now falling. It was being burnt down to ashes. That is when I ran back into the house and I could not get anymore chance that I could take my family and run away. The time was too short. This happened quite soon and there was more sound of gunfire outside. I think this went on for about five minutes before I could go outside once more. When I went out for the third time to look as to what was happening I came across stones, KRUGERSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 3 M X KHULUSA they were pelting me with stones. They broke my windscreen and somebody was saying you must hit or break into the car because these people have already run away. They were speaking in Zulu. When I went out I saw the last six going past my house. That is when I took my baggage as well as my family. I put them into the car. As I was going out of the car I saw one Afrikaner who was standing in the Casper pointing a gun towards me and a certain boy who was running away across was shot by this very same Afrikaner. He hung on the fence. That is where he fell and they proceeded down. I went with my wife trying to get some escape route so that I can go back to the location. Along the way I was going across some corpses so that I could go past. At the lease, I think I removed about six bodies along the way so that I could gain some passage. As I was looking at Hazedville I saw that the people were surrounded by the Caspers. There were two on each side and the people were in the middle. They were heading towards the direction of Kagiso number one. The Hippos were escorting them. They went up to Kagiso number one. This is what I saw with my own eyes. At that time we saw some journalists who were asking as to what had happened, who died and what caused all the havoc. Later on we were told that we were supposed to go to court. When the time arrived for us to go to court, we kept on going to court, we kept on going up and down, but at the end the Prosecutor told us that we should buy the newspaper because our case had been finalised and we shall read in the newspapers as to how the matter was finalised. We went and we bought the newspapers. When we looked at the newspapers KRUGERSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 4 M X KHULUSA I saw that what was written in the newspapers was that the evidence was insufficient for a conviction. So the people had not been convicted, but we were not all called to give evidence or to give testimony. Out of 40 complainants they called only three witnesses and the very same people pointed out the perpetrators because photos of them had been taken. The complainants were pointing out the perpetrators and they pointed the right people, but the case was dismissed because there was insufficient evidence. I could not understand this and I said we should re-open the matter and they had been threatened. We were told that if we re-opened the case the Inkatha would come back and finish us off. So we were scared that. That was the whole thing. I still want my windscreen as well as the people who died during that incident. I am not yet satisfied. CHAIRPERSON When they came to attack your place on this particular day, they warned you for two consecutive days. What was happening in that area, that is in Swanieville? Were there any boycotts or were there any fights? What was happening. MR KHULUSA I do not know. Something was happening, but I do not know how it was connected with this incident. There is a certain group which called us women. This group stayed a little bit further down the area and they called themselves The Men. When they came to us they would call us women and this very same group, whenever they wanted to kill a person, they would take that particular person at twelve in the evening or at midnight and you would be killed there. The group was being led by a certain two men whose names I have in me. If you witnessed this you would not be able to go and report the matter to the police because you would be KRUGERSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 5 M X KHULUSA the next victim. Then it was apparent that this group wrote a letter. They said they were not afraid of anyone. I think this is where the whole fight started because besides that I am not aware of any fight that took place. So at the end of the day we tried to form a group in order to try and protect ourselves. They would tell others to wake up so that we patrol the area. So I do not know whether this is what triggered the whole incident or there was something before then and as to how Inkatha and the police feature into the whole equation, is unclear to me. CHAIRPERSON These two factions, that is The Man and The Women, were they within the very same area? MR KHULUSA Yes, that is correct. CHAIRPERSON Now, how sure are you that it was Inkatha that came to attack you? MR KHULUSA We were told by the group that called themselves The Men. That is the leaders of the group. They told us that we were supposed to patrol because there was an imminent attack from Inkatha. When they speak like that there is no way you can ask as to why is the Inkatha going to come and attack us. You just wake up and you patrol. That is how it went on, but I do not know who told them that Inkatha was coming to attack us and that is how the attack took place, but we did not know as to why the white people said we should sleep. CHAIRPERSON When the Boers said you should sleep three times why did they say that? MR KHULUSA We could not ask them why. They just said we should sleep at eight. We should not be around the street. CHAIRPERSON In other words, was there a curfew or KRUGERSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 6 M X KHULUSA something that there should not be anyone around the street after eight? MR KHULUSA It might probably be like that. I do not know. CHAIRPERSON Were you a member of any political organisation besides the fact that your were called one of The Woman? That is a political organisation, were you a member? MR KHULUSA At that time I was not actively involved in politics. I was just a Christian, but I joined the ANC later on. CHAIRPERSON Now, what about the Caspers. Were the Caspers driven by police who were in uniform? MR KHULUSA That is correct. They were wearing uniforms and they would come during the day after lunch. CHAIRPERSON When you were attacked during the night were the police there? MR KHULUSA The Caspers were there when we were attacked. That was in the morning. They were observing the situation. Even one Boer shot at one man who fell on top of the fence and the Inkatha was present with spears and assegais. CHAIRPERSON That is enough for now. I shall hand over to other members of the Commission who would like to ask questions. Piet Meiring. PROF MEIRING I have just a personal question about your own circumstances. What work do you do? Where are you employed at the moment? MR KHULUSA I am no longer working, as from 1991. I lost my job because there was a conflict with regard to hours. I was supposed to work for 44 hours, but I refused. I was doing it according to the Law which said I should work 44 hours and the other hour I could work it as an overtime. KRUGERSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 7 M X KHULUSA That is why I was dismissed. PROF MEIRING Thank you and your family, your family, how many children do you have? Are they still dependent upon you? MR KHULUSA My wife as well as my brothers are maintaining my children. PROF MEIRING How many children do you have? MR KHULUSA I have four children. PROF MEIRING Thank you and then a last question. These things happened in 1991. A number of years now have passed. Is the relationship between Inkatha and the rest of Swanieville still strained or are relationships better now? MR KHULUSA It is quiet at the moment because these people are quite far away from us. They are staying at the hostel, Kagiso Hostel. So I have not yet seen them. PROF MEIRING Thank you, thank you very much. CHAIRPERSON Yasmin Sooka. MS SOOKA Mr Khulusa, I just want to ask you about these two groups. INTERPRETER The speaker's mike is not on. MS SOOKA The group referred to as The Men and the group referred to as The Women. Were these vigilante groups and what was the difference between them? Why was the one called Men and the other one called Women? MR KHULUSA They said we are women because we were mixed with the people from the location, that is the Swanas and the Soethos. They said they were men and they had more strength than us. MS SOOKA And who were they? MR KHULUSA Their leaders were Zolile and Sekakane as well as a certain group. They are the people who use to wreck KRUGERSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 8 M X KHULUSA havoc and they kept us very unhappy. We were quite scared of each other because we did not trust each other. We did not know who belonged to which group, who was from where. I remember when I was doing a refrigeration course. I use to have very big files which looked like a docket. It looked like a police docket and I was just on my way to the taxi rank and one of the members of the opposite group, that is The Men pointed at me. There was a certain sign when you were bordering a taxi, as I am just indicating and they indicated that I should be slaughtered because they said I was an impimpi, an informer because I was having these envelopes and these files which looked like police dockets. As from then I never trusted anyone. Ever since they made that sign that I should be decapitated. That is when I went to the location and I would only come back at night and I would leave all my documentation at home. I would only come back in the evening or in the morning. Just before the people could see me because I was scared of being referred to as an informer. This was the sort of life that we lived at that place. Even if you had a little document or a van passed by and you greet a policeman, you are called an informer. That was the life that that group made us live. MS SOOKA What usually happened to informers in that kind of situation? MR KHULUSA Could you please repeat the question? MS SOOKA I said if you were pointed out as an impimpi, what would have happened to you in the township? MR KHULUSA Whether you were an informer or not, if they felt that they did not like you, they had this sign that you should be decapitated or killed. As I am indicating. Now you know that you should really be aware because they would KRUGERSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 9 M X KHULUSA fetch people from their houses and kill them. Nobody would ever be brave enough to intervene. There is a certain person that was killed right before everybody. Not even a single policeman came to investigate the matter. That person was burnt down and he was bloated. Anyone who came near would be killed. That is the life we led, but the situation is quite different, but still very tense. There is still tension that we cannot be ruled by the Xhosas or the Zulus, The Men and The Women. MS SOOKA So, if I hear you properly. At that time there were not only the problems with Inkatha, the problems with the police? There were also problems between these two groups in Swanieville? MR KHULUSA That is quite correct. Besides the Inkatha and police group, there was always this fight between The Men and The Women. We could not open cases with regard to that matter. MS SOOKA What is the situation now in Swanieville? Do you still have these different groupings? MR KHULUSA There is conflict still going on. It will never end because there are certain people who have been elected to try and straighten up the past, but the others are saying that they have stayed in that area for quite some time and they were not going to be controlled or ruled by new people who came into the area. Whenever there is a meeting there would also be conflict and argument in the meeting. So the situation has not yet quite been relaxed. It is still a little bit tense. MS SOOKA Thank you. CHAIRPERSON Dr Randera. DR RANDERA Mr Khulusa, thank you for the information you KRUGERSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 10 M X KHULUSA have given us already. I want to come back to this place called Swanieville. In 1991 how old was Swanieville then? How long was it standing? MR KHULUSA Do you mean from 1991 or from, I think it was about three to four years old. That is before 1991. I think it was roughly three to four years old if I do hear you quite well because it was not yet that very old and yet not that new. It was between three to four years old. INTERPRETER The speaker's mike is not on. DR RANDERA Sorry. You have talked about the groups called The Men and The Women, but what were the other issues that led to that day when the Inkatha people marched through Swanieville? Were there other things that were happening that could have contributed? MR KHULUSA I think the reason or the root cause were the Boers. They know the root cause because they were the ones who said we should sleep. Why did they say we should sleep when we were going to be attacked? DR RANDERA Now, I just want to clarify this point. I mean when you say the Boers who are you referring to? The police? MR KHULUSA Yes, I am referring to the police as well as Inkatha because there was an interpreter who was a member of Inkatha and the Boer was speaking in Afrikaans. They were the ones who said that we should sleep and we were attacked thereafter. DR RANDERA I understand the day before the attack took place, the police had come into Swanieville and gone on a house to house search and had confiscated whatever weapons they found. Is that right? MR KHULUSA At that time I heard once when I was still in KRUGERSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 11 M X KHULUSA hospital that the area was being searched. I do not have firsthand information with that regard. DR RANDERA I am talking about the day before the attack. Were you in hospital that day? MR KHULUSA No, I am not referring to that day. What I am saying is on the days that they came in, they never searched, but they went through the streets telling us that we should sleep, we should not be around the streets at eight. DR RANDERA Had Inkatha, well, the people from the hostel, had they ever attacked Swanieville before? MR KHULUSA It has never been done before. It was only that once. DR RANDERA So why do you think on that day they came into Swanieville? Why did they not go into Kagiso or somewhere else? Why Swanieville? MR KHULUSA I think the reason was because in Dobsonville they also attacked. That is how I took it, because if they attack one location they might as well attack another. That is how I took it. DR RANDERA How many people were killed on that day Mr Khulusa? MR KHULUSA If I could estimate I think the maximum number could have been 30, up to 40. DR RANDERA Now, you say that when the attack took place and you came out of your house when the shack was burning, you saw a policeman pointing a gun towards you and he in fact shot a young person who was running away. Are you saying the police were standing there while Inkatha moved through Swanieville and attacked people, shacks, property and did nothing? KRUGERSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 12 M X KHULUSA MR KHULUSA That is correct because the Casper was there. I saw a policeman who was shooting at a certain young man who was jumping the fence. DR RANDERA And they were not stopping the people who were burning and looting and killing? MR KHULUSA They never even lifted a finger to try and help. I discovered that they were protecting Inkatha now because they were driving and Inkatha members were driving in the middle of the Hippos. They were heading towards Kagiso one hostel. They were still escorting the Inkatha members. They never even lifted a finger to help the residents. DR RANDERA And you yourself were not a member of any organisation at the time? MR KHULUSA Not at the time. DR RANDERA Where do you come from yourself, Sir? MR KHULUSA From Kagiso. DR RANDERA Okay, thank you very much. CHAIRPERSON Mr Khulusa, we have heard your story. Our research unit has already tried some attempts to find out what was the cause of the conflict and according to their report was that it was on the 12th of May 1991 when Swanieville was attacked and 28 people died on that particular day, that six people got injured and 112 shacks were burnt down. The reason for this fight or this attack was that the owner of the place where you had built your shacks was Mr Swanepoel. Do you know anything about the conflict that took place between the residents and Swanepoel? MR KHULUSA What I know is that Swanepoel was increasing the rent every month which means that if you pay R20.00 this KRUGERSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 13 M X KHULUSA month, the following month you had to pay R20.00 and the other month you had to pay R40.00. He said to us he was going to provide us with clean running water and that he had a borehole. He was going to supply us with clean, running water. The rent was going up every month so that he could do all those things he was promising. There was a certain man at the time who had died and he had a conflict with Swanepoel at that time because at that time we never use to go closer to Swanepoel as individuals, but we use to send or delegate certain men from the group and they had an argument with Swanepoel with regard to the rent. As from then I do not know what happened, up to such time that we were attacked. CHAIRPERSON Rumour has it that the rent that was always going up, you refused to pay that rent, but there were certain people who were collecting the money, but not giving it to Swanepoel at that time. That was when the conflict started. Is that correct? MR KHULUSA No, I do not know anything about that because the leaders who use to speak to Swanepoel were leaders who were elected to go and speak to Swanepoel. There would be a meeting thereafter convened to come and give us the results of the meeting and if the meeting was on a Sunday I had gone to other places. CHAIRPERSON If he did not like the situation or was not satisfied he sent some men to attack you. How far true is that? MR KHULUSA I also am not clear with regard to that. All that I know was that we referred to as women and they referred to themselves as The Men and that they were going to rule us and if we do not want to be ruled we would be KRUGERSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 14 M X KHULUSA killed. That is how I know it. CHAIRPERSON We thank you very much for having related the story to us. We are not clear as to whether there is anything that you would like to say with regard to this incident. MR KHULUSA Yes, there is something that I would like to say. I want to know from this Commission as to whether what should I do or what steps should I take in order to be able to get payment for my damages. That is damages to my car and secondly I would like to know as to whether these people who died as well as their families, what reparation can they get from the Truth Commission with regard to the deaths of their family members? CHAIRPERSON I shall refer that to Professor Meiring so that he can answer that question for you. PROF MEIRING As it happens with all other victims who come to the fore. When we receive your testimony as we have it, it is referred to the Truth Commission and then they make a finding on whether a person is a victim or not. After the finding requests are given to the R & R Committee and they try and see what they can do for that. So, as with all the other cases, your request will be put before the Commission and they will have to act upon that. The other people about whom you are concerned. Maybe you should advice them to come to the Truth Commission and make statements for their own, all by themselves because you cannot make a statement for all the other people, but their families will have to make statements. So it will be a good idea if you ask them to go make statements and come to the TRC all by themselves. CHAIRPERSON We thank you very much for having come to KRUGERSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 15 M X KHULUSA appear before this Commission. We shall contact you in due course as soon as we have conducted our investigation. Thank you. KRUGERSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG