hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1997-05-12 KING WILLIAM'S TOWN 1 SHEPHERD LULAMILE JAWE EC1994/97CCK https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55484&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/kwtown/jawe.htm CHAIRPERSON How old are you Mr Jawe. MR JAWE I am 22 years old. CHAIRPERSON You look pretty young. I thought you were 14, because people under the age of 18 do not appear before the Commission on their own. Reverend Xundu will swear you in. REV XUNDU Thank you Mr Chairperson. Shepherd Lulamile Jawe please get up. SHEPHERD LULAMILE JAWE (Duly sworn in, states). REV XUNDU Thank you. CHAIRPERSON Tiny Maya. MS MAYA Thank you Mr Chairperson. Good afternoon Lulamile. You are going to talk about yourself, an incident in 1985 when you were ten years old. Is that so? MR JAWE Yes. MS MAYA Did you know what was happening at the time? MR JAWE Yes, my family told me. MS MAYA Tell us what happened. MR JAWE It was 1985 on the 20th of September. MS MAYA Please speak up. MR JAWE It was 1985 on the 20th of September. We were in the village singing songs, liberation songs. We were singing moving down the streets. It was at about nine in the evening. As we were singing the police came with torches and there was teargas and we were shot with rubber bullets. MS MAYA What village was this? MR JAWE It was Lenge in Alice. MS MAYA Please continue. MR JAWE When we heard that we were being shot with rubber bullets and that there was teargas we ran away, jumping over fences. As I was running, jumping over a fence, I fell. MS MAYA Please speak up. MR JAWE As I was jumping over the fence, because it was at night, I fell. The police got me. Some people, as they were running, would trample over me. I was beaten with the back of a rifle on my head. I became unconscious. The next thing I knew I was at Cecilia Makiwane. MR JAWE How injured were you? MR JAWE On my head, I was injured. MS MAYA How long did you stay in hospital for? MR JAWE I stayed for two to three months. MS MAYA What standard were you doing at the time? MR JAWE I was in standard one. MS MAYA After you got out of hospital were you able to go back to school? MR JAWE Yes, I went back to school the following year. I went and repeated my standard one. I continued until I finished my matric. I had problems, however. I could not hear properly. I am mentally not well. Apparently I am deranged. MS MAYA Does that happen to you often? MR JAWE It happens, but seldom. It use to happen a lot around 1992, 1993. MS MAYA Are you getting help from the doctors? MR JAWE I use to go for help, because whilst I was at school it use to happen quite a bit, but now I am better. It happens now even, but seldom. MS MAYA Do you think that you still need further treatment? MR JAWE Yes, I could use some help. MS MAYA Did you see who beat you up? Did you see who hit you with the back of the rifle? MR JAWE No, it was at night, but what happened is that as they were hitting us they called out names and I remember the names. I heard three names. MS MAYA Who was it? MR JAWE It is Mr Fila, who was a police in Ciskei, a policeman, Mr Ngonyama and Mr Skhephe. MR JAWE Did you see them after that? MR JAWE I last saw them three years ago. MS MAYA You do not know where they are? MR JAWE No, I do not know. MS MAYA Were they members of the police force in Ciskei? MR JAWE Yes. MS MAYA And they were stationed in Alice? MR JAWE Yes. MS MAYA Is that all Lulamile? MR JAWE Yes. MS MAYA What requests do you have before the Commission? MR JAWE I need help, because I am not well. I want to continue with my education, but I cannot because I was gravely affected mentally. If the Commission could help me and perhaps some form of compensation for myself and my parents. MS MAYA If you would see these police that injured you at such a tender age, what would you say to them? MR JAWE I do not know what I would say, because I am still much younger than them, even now. There is nothing I can do. MS MAYA What would you like the Commission to do? MR JAWE If the Commission could investigate and arrest them, divulge all. MS MAYA You said you finished your matric. What are you doing now? MR JAWE I am not doing anything. MS MAYA Thank you Lulamile. I will hand you over to the Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON Mr Jawe, you say that Mr Fila, Mr Ngonyama and Mr Skhephe were involved in your injuries. Do you have their first names, these are surnames? MR JAWE I do not have their names. CHAIRPERSON But you can identify these people? MR JAWE No, I did not see them. CHAIRPERSON Okay, are there any other questions. MS CRICHTON Yes, can I ask a few questions. CHAIRPERSON Mrs Crichton. MS CRICHTON Mr Jawe, can you hear me? Mr Jawe, you were with a group of children on that day singing freedom songs. Were there other children that were injured on that day? MR JAWE Will you please repeat your question. MS CRICHTON My question is were there other children injured on that day? MR JAWE Yes, there were. MS CRICHTON Do you know how many or do you know anything about them? MR JAWE I do not know how many there were, but I know one who is here today. MS CRICHTON And he was present and he saw what happened to you? MR JAWE Well, I do not know, because we had dispersed, we were running away, but he was there. He was also injured. MS CRICHTON But you know him well enough to be able to ask him the question as to whether he can identify these three people who you have identified? MR JAWE Well, I do not know, perhaps he can be able to identify these people. MS CRICHTON Alright, thank you very much. CHAIRPERSON Mr Jawe, you stay at Lenge? MR JAWE Yes Reverend. CHAIRPERSON Do you know the police at Lenge? MR JAWE There is one Ciskeian police in Lenge. CHAIRPERSON Who is it? MR JAWE Mr Mafu, but at that time he was not a policeman yet. CHAIRPERSON Therefore you did not know the police at the time? MR JAWE There were no police at Lenge at the time. CHAIRPERSON Okay. Thank you Mr Jawe. Thank you for your evidence. There are two submissions. The first one from Mr Ngonyama, the second one from Mr Skhephe. Mr Ngonyama is represented by Mr Mlalane.