hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1997-05-12 KING WILLIAM'S TOWN 1 MXOLISI DESMOND KIVITI EC1989/97ALB https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55485&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/kwtown/kiviti.htm REV XUNDU Mr Chairperson, I would like to help them take an oath. MXOLISI DESMOND KIVITI (Duly sworn, states). REV XUNDU Thank you sir. PENDILE ALBERT JEKEQA (Duly sworn, states). REV XUNDU Thank you sir. Mr Chairperson, I would like to lead them with questions. We will start with you Mr Kiviti. What is your clan name? MR KIVITI I am Ndlovu. REV XUNDU Here Mr Ndlovu, you have a story to tell us about your arrest or your ill-treatment in 1963. Please tell us briefly and give us a picture of what happened on that particular day. CHAIRPERSON We would like order please. Thank you very much. REV XUNDU Please continue sir. MR KIVITI In 1963, it was on the eighth of April, it was on the eighth of April. We were PAC members and we got together, we went to the police station to try and visit the other members who were arrested. REV XUNDU Which police station is this? MR KIVITI In King William's Town. REV XUNDU Were you from the Tshatshu Location? MR KIVITI Yes, we were from the Tshatshu Location to King William's Town. We then met Zwelitsha, people from Zwelitsha. REV XUNDU What time was it? MR KIVITI It was at night about 12. We arrived in King William's Town police station. When we arrived there we demanded that people who were arrested be released. REV XUNDU How many were you, if you can estimate? MR KIVITI We were many, I cannot estimate. REV XUNDU How many were these people who were arrested? MR KIVITI I think when we were arrested we were about, over 70. REV XUNDU How many people were arrested when you got there? MR KIVITI There were five people. REV XUNDU Were you an organiser or a Chairperson of this organisation? MR KIVITI No, I was in the Task Force. When we arrived there we heard a gunshot. The Boers were on top of the police station. They knew that we were coming. We ran away, two of us were shot. One fell down, the other one managed to run away until he got home. REV XUNDU Do you know the name of the man who fell down? MR KIVITI It was Johnson Nongena. REV XUNDU Johnson Nongena? MR KIVITI Yes. REV XUNDU Thank you. MR KIVITI And Pindile Jekeqa. I found out that Pindile was shot when we were arrested. On the following morning at about ten the police arrived. They were pointing us that we were there amongst the people who were in that police station. They did not manage to get me at that time. They got me late that day. We were then arrested. When we arrived there, it was two of us at that time. It was myself and Zolie Ngandi. I was taken by Charles Sebe and Stoltz to the back and they put me in the boot of a car. They opened the boot in Buffalo. They told me to take off my shoes. They tied me with a rope in my waist. This rope was in that place. They tried, they put me in the water and I wanted to go out, they would put me again. I was then unconscious, but I kept on vomiting and I lost consciousness. REV XUNDU Did they ask you any questions? MR KIVITI They asked me who were the people who were with me yesterday. I denied that I was there. I said I did not know anything. They said to me I was going to tell them the truth. I denied this. They then decided to take me to Industria. REV XUNDU What happened after that? MR KIVITI We stayed 11 months awaiting for trial. They would postpone our case now and then. On the 11th month they separated us into two groups. The other group was charged with sabotage and others were alleged of being members of an unlawful organisation. REV XUNDU Where were you? MR KIVITI I was in the group who was charged for being a member of an unlawful organisation, because it was found that there was no evidence against me as I denied all the allegations. I told them that I was going to give a statement to the magistrate. We were taken to Grahamstown and those who were charged with sabotage were taken to Queenstown. We were then sentenced to two years. REV XUNDU You were taken to Robben Island? MR KIVITI Yes, we were then taken to Robben Island. I stayed for two years in Robben Island. In 1966 we were released. After three days we got documents of the banning order for two years. We had to ask permission to the magistrate if we wanted to visit another place. REV XUNDU At the time of your arrest were you working? MR KIVITI Yes, I was working. REV XUNDU After you were released from prison were you, did you get any employment? MR KIVITI We were not allowed to meet more than five people at that time. REV XUNDU So, your right to get employment was taken from you? MR KIVITI Yes, it was taken from me. They told me to go out and look for work for myself, not be accompanied by anyone. REV XUNDU But you would not get a job because the Station Commander would go there and prevent that. When were you detained by this Government? MR KIVITI In 1981 under the Sebe Government, under R252 by the Sebe regime. They would release me, they would arrest me again after a few days. REV XUNDU Are you working now? MR KIVITI I am not working now, but before I was working. REV XUNDU Mr Kiviti, what is your request to the Commission? MR KIVITI I have one request to the Commission, sir. If we can get a project in Tshatshu Location, because our children are not aware of this. We would like to name this project. Our children are not aware that we were arrested. At that time I was not married. I would like you to help us to get this project. REV XUNDU You would like to be helped to start a project? MR KIVITI Yes, I would like to be, we would like to be helped to start a project. REV XUNDU Thank you. Is that all sir? MR KIVITI Yes, that is all. REV XUNDU Thank you. Mr Jekeqa, what is your clan name? MR JEQEKA I am Nagwana, sir. REV XUNDU Briefly sir, please tell us your story. Were you arrested on the same day with Mr Kiviti? MR JEQEKA Yes. REV XUNDU Your story is similar? MR JEQEKA Yes, it is similar, it is one story. REV XUNDU So there is no need for you to repeat what Mr Kiviti has already said. MR JEQEKA I was charged with sabotage, he was charged with belonging to an unlawful organisation. I was then sentenced to 12 years. When we were in Robben Island he was released, so our story differs there. REV XUNDU As you were arrested did you get medical treatment? MR JEQEKA I was just taken to Grey Hospital and treated by Dr Backwards. He took the scissors from the nurses. He did not want the nurses to treat me properly. He did not give me any injections. He then sent me to prison. That was the only treatment I got. REV XUNDU This doctor violated your human rights? MR JEQEKA Yes, because he was not treating me well. REV XUNDU How long did you stay in prison? MR JEQEKA I stayed for 12 years. REV XUNDU What did you do after you were released? MR JEQEKA I stayed at home and 1980 I got a job in Surveyor-General. I was not banned, I was just staying at home. I then worked for King Turning company until 1992. REV XUNDU In Tshatshu Location why were you politically active? What was encouraging you to be politically active? MR JEQEKA We were suffering and black people were suffering. We saw that we have to do something in order to fight for liberation. We were united, we got together to go to the police and tell them that what they were doing to us was not right. REV XUNDU Sir, do you have anything you want us to forward to the President or what would you like the Commission to do for you? MR JEQEKA Firstly, Mr Chairperson, I have children who are at school and I am not working. REV XUNDU How many are there? MR JEQEKA I have five children. I also have twins who are still very young. REV XUNDU How old are they? MR JEQEKA The first one is doing standard ten. She is 18 years old. The other one is doing standard eight and the other one standard four. My twins are doing Sub B. I would like to be helped to educate them and to support my family, because my wife is not well. She is in Grootte Schuur Hospital. I am alone at home and I am not working. REV XUNDU You would like a social grant? MR JEQEKA Yes. REV XUNDU Is there anything else? MR JEQEKA Because I am 57 years of age I would like the Commission to help me to get a pension grant. REV XUNDU I thought that you were still a very young man. You could get another wife, because you are a handsome man. Lastly, you also support Mr Ndlovu for the project? MR JEQEKA Yes, I would also like playground and I would like the Commission to help us to build a community hall so that we can have our meetings there. REV XUNDU Thank you very much. Thank you Mr Chairperson, I will hand over to you. CHAIRPERSON Mr Sandi. ADV SANDI Thank you Mr Chairperson. There are names of the police you mentioned in your statements, both of you. When we were preparing for this day we had a problem to get these police. Are there any police you have mentioned in your statement, the police you know where they are, Mr Stoltz and Mr Mgedeza and others? Do you know where they are? MR JEQEKA Mr Chairperson, I would not know, because I last saw them in 1963. When we were in prison we did not know what was happening outside. Charles, who was together with them, passed away. I do not know where they are. MR KIVITI Mr Chairperson, I do now know where Mr Stoltz is. I last him at that time. He was from Queenstown at that time. He came to prosecute us. ADV SANDI Was he from Queenstown? MR KIVITI They said that he was from Queenstown. ADV SANDI Let me then ask this way. The officers of the security police were here in King William's Town or were they in East London at the time? MR KIVITI We were not aware of this special branch when we got arrested. I think all this happened when we were arrested, but the police would be sent to arrest us. I do not know whether Mr Stoltz is still around. ADV SANDI Do you know that, of whether there were police from East London during this time? MR KIVITI No, they were police from here. Charles was from here together with Stoltz. ADV SANDI Thank you. Thank you Mr Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON Mr Kiviti, you said that the story you brought to the Commission is the same story brought forward by Mr Jekeqa? MR KIVITI Yes, that is correct. CHAIRPERSON When these statements were taken did you make a mistake, because in the statement in front of us in your story it is not clear that you were on your way to the police station to try and release the leaders who have been arrested. Mr Jekeqa's statement clearly states that, but in your statement this does not appear. MR KIVITI I think it was a mistake, because we were arrested on the same day. CHAIRPERSON Who were these PAC leaders which were arrested on that day. I know that this happened in 1963, but we have to have the peoples' names. MR KIVITI It was Tembikile Nyopo, Maliso Nyopo and Kente. CHAIRPERSON Were they regional leaders or national leaders? MR KIVITI They were regional leaders of the PAC. CHAIRPERSON In other words when we consult our records we would find out who the regional leaders were at that time. Was there any attorney representing PAC members? MR KIVITI We had one attorney, Mr Mtshizana. He was representing us. He told us that he was going to find another attorney for us. CHAIRPERSON The attorney Small Becker who appeared in the Supreme Court, was he an advocate? MR KIVITI Yes, he was not an attorney, he was an advocate. CHAIRPERSON Are there any other questions? We thank you Mr Kiviti and Mr Jekeqa for coming before the Commission and telling us your story. We are going to meet with you, Mr Kiviti, in order for you to clarify certain matters in your statement. For now we would like to thank you. Tomorrow we are going to listen to other issues concerning PAC people. Not tomorrow, but on Wednesday, when Mr Kati will be here, but for now we thank you.