hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1997-05-13 KING WILLIAM'S TOWN 2 MZWABANTU NGXOKELA https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55508&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/kwtown/ngxokela.htm CHAIRMAN: We will now call forward Mzwabantu Ngxokela. MZWABANTU NGXOKELA (sworn states) REVD XUNDU Thank you. Mr Chairperson, he has been properly sworn in. CHAIRMAN Tiny Maya will lead you with questions on behalf of the Commission. MS MAYA Thank you Mr Chairperson. Mr Ngxokela, you are here to tell us the story about yourself about what happened to you on the 7th of June 1987, is that correct? MR NGXOKELA Yes, that is correct. MS MAYA You are also from Stutterheim? MR NGXOKELA Yes. MS MAYA You said that on this particular day you were arrested by certain members of the South African Police. Can you please tell us what happened on that day? MR NGXOKELA I attended a night vigil for Bhabha Mlata. MS MAYA Please come nearer to the mike so that we can hear you. MR NGXOKELA I attended a night vigil for Bhabha Mlata. I then left at night, I went home. MS MAYA Please raise your voice, we cannot hear you. MR NGXOKELA In the next morning on Sunday, the municipality police came in my home, they kicked the door, looking for me. I woke up, I opened the door. They took me to their house. They then assaulted me, asking me what I was doing in a meeting. I asked them why were you beating me, they said they were beating me because I attended a meeting. They were beating me with sjamboks. They were kicking me. I would fall down and they would kick me in my jaws and in my body. They took me to the rent office, they said that I must give them a statement. I told them that I can't do that because I know nothing about what they were accusing me. They then took me to the South African police, they arrested me. I spent three days there. On Wednesday I appeared in court. I was released on a free bail. They told me that they were investigating the case. We then found Attorneys and I was found not guilty in court. MS MAYA You said that the police came and they assaulted you in your home. Who was Bhabha Mlata, the one you attended a night vigil? MR NGXOKELA Bhabha Mlata was the one who was killed. MS MAYA Who killed him? MR NGXOKELA I was from Johannesburg where I was working. I was told that that weekend he was going to be buried. I attended the night vigil because he was a comrade I knew. MS MAYA Were you a member of any political organisation in Stutterheim? MR NGXOKELA Yes. MS MAYA What was the name of that political organisation? MR NGXOKELA It was the UDF, but I was working in Johannesburg at the time. MS MAYA Did you notice any of the police that beat you? MR NGXOKELA Yes. MS MAYA Who are these police? MR NGXOKELA It was Nono Phahlane, Bhadu and Didiza MS MAYA Please raise your voice. MR NGXOKELA It was Nono Phahlane, Bhadu, Didiza and Kenny. There were seven of them. MS MAYA Were they South African police? MR NGXOKELA Yes, they were South African police. MS MAYA You said that they took you to the rent office, why were they taking you there? MR NGXOKELA The rent office is the municipality office where we pay our rent. MS MAYA Why were they taking you, why were they beating you in the rent office? MR NGXOKELA They first took me to their home, they handcuffed me. Nono Phahlane wanted to shoot me. They then took me to the rent office. MS MAYA Was it a usual thing that when people were arrested by the police, they would be taken to the rent office? MR NGXOKELA I don't know because I was not staying there, I was working in Johannesburg. MS MAYA What happened to you after that? MR NGXOKELA They took me to the South African police. MS MAYA You were assaulted there? MR NGXOKELA They told the police to arrest me. The police then arrested me. MS MAYA Were there any other people who were arrested with you? MR NGXOKELA Yes, I was arrested with Niqelo. MS MAYA Who is Niqelo? MR NGXOKELA They came with Niqelo in my home. MS MAYA Were you members of the same organisation with Niqelo? MR NGXOKELA Yes. MS MAYA Where is Niqelo now? MR NGXOKELA Niqelo passed away. MS MAYA Who are the other people? MR NGXOKELA It was only the two of us. MS MAYA Were there any other people who were tortured by the police because they attended the funeral? MR NGXOKELA I did not hear anything about that. MS MAYA Were there any other people who witnessed your arrest? MR NGXOKELA My mother was there. MS MAYA Where is your mother now? MR NGXOKELA My mother is at home. MS MAYA Who are other people who witnessed this arrest? MR NGXOKELA I did not see anybody because the police took me at home, they arrested me. MS MAYA You said that you were arrested and they released you after three days? MR NGXOKELA Yes, that is correct. MS MAYA While you were in police cells, who was with you? MR NGXOKELA It was myself and Niqelo. MS MAYA The one who passed away? MR NGXOKELA Yes. MS MAYA You said that there were other people who were arrested with you, apart from Niqelo? MR NGXOKELA Yes, but I don't remember their names. MS MAYA In the community, did you see any people who were arrested with you after this? MR NGXOKELA No, I don't remember them. MS MAYA Do you know why these people, these police arrested you and Niqelo? MR NGXOKELA I don't know because I was not staying at home, I was working in Johannesburg. MS MAYA In the organisation, were you a leader or did you have any position? MR NGXOKELA I was just a member. MS MAYA The people who arrested you, are they still around in your community? MR NGXOKELA Please repeat your question. MS MAYA The people who arrested you and assaulted you, are they still around? MR NGXOKELA Yes. MS MAYA Are they still policemen? MR NGXOKELA Yes, they are. MS MAYA When did they stop assaulting you? MR NGXOKELA Nono Phahlane pointed me with a gun, they then stopped him. MS MAYA You mentioned that you vomited blood, that is when they stopped assaulting you? MR NGXOKELA Yes, that is correct. MS MAYA Did you go to any Doctor? MR NGXOKELA Yes, in Stutterheim. MS MAYA Do you remember the Doctor's name? MR NGXOKELA It was Dr Brink. MS MAYA Did he treat you? MR NGXOKELA Yes, he treated me. MS MAYA How were you injured? MR NGXOKELA I broke my jaws and my ribs. MS MAYA Do you still have medical records? MR NGXOKELA Yes, from Dr Brink and Mt Coke Hospital. MS MAYA We would like you to give these documents to our investigators. Do you have something to add to your story? MR NGXOKELA I cannot do anything, I am just staying at home, doing nothing. MS MAYA Did you lay a charge against the police or the municipality police or the people who were responsible for the rent office? MR NGXOKELA Yes, I laid a charge in the BPC offices. MS MAYA Were you compensated? MR NGXOKELA Yes, I received a settlement amount of R3 000-00. MS MAYA Do you remember the name of the Attorney? MR NGXOKELA His name was Mhlalana. MS MAYA What about Tabata and Van Heerden? Was it Mhlalana alone or Mhlalana with Tabata? MR NGXOKELA It was Tabata and John Smith. MS MAYA What is your request to the Commission sir? MR NGXOKELA My request is that I got injured and I can't do anything for myself. MS MAYA What would you like us to do? MR NGXOKELA I would like to get medical treatment and to be compensated. MS MAYA Is that all sir? MR NGXOKELA Yes, and I am alone. I am alone at home. MS MAYA Thank you Mr Ngxokela, I will now hand over to the Chairperson. CHAIRMAN Mr Ngxokela, the Dr Brink you mentioned, is he the same Dr Brink we heard about in Khayalethu Hela's testimony? Khayalethu Hela said that Dr Brink was corroborating with the police? MR NGXOKELA Yes, that is correct. CHAIRMAN Is he the same Dr Brink? MR NGXOKELA Yes. CHAIRMAN You received treatment from him? MR NGXOKELA Yes, I received treatment from him. He treated me and then he discharged me. CHAIRMAN Were you from prison at the time? MR NGXOKELA Yes. CHAIRMAN Tiny Maya? MS MAYA My last question Mr Ngxokela, you said that your ribs were broken and your jaws were fractured, were you admitted in hospital? MR NGXOKELA Yes, in Stutterheim hospital. MS MAYA Thank you. CHAIRMAN Mr Sandi? ADV SANDI Thank you Mr Chairman. Mr Ngxokela, the police are supposed to protect the people, is that so? MR NGXOKELA Yes, that is so. ADV SANDI At the time of your incident, were they protecting people in Stutterheim? MR NGXOKELA No, they were not protecting people. ADV SANDI Were they interested as the police to protect people? MR NGXOKELA No, they were not protecting people at that time. ADV SANDI When I look at your testimony and the testimony from people from Stutterheim, am I mistaken to think that the police in Stutterheim at this time, were doing anything they wanted to do to people, is that so? MR NGXOKELA Yes, that is so. ADV SANDI They were not prevented by anything, by anyone from doing whatever they wanted? MR NGXOKELA Yes. ADV SANDI They were not working according to the rules of the police? So you can say that they were making their own laws? MR NGXOKELA Yes. ADV SANDI Thank you Mr Ngxokela. CHAIRMAN Thank you Mr Ngxokela, we thank you for appearing before the Commission to give your testimony. We also understand your situation because of this assault as the Commission, we understand that. All the cases presented before us, we investigate them trying to find out all the details so that we can make a decision of whether this person is a victim or not. If we found out that the person is a victim, that the person's rights have been violated, we would then be able to inform the President, this is the first step that you've given us your statement and you've given us your evidence. When we are making the finding, we will know what to conclude. For now, we would like to thank you for coming before the Commission to tell us your story. Thank you very much Mr Ngxokela. MR REDPATH Mr Chairperson, I represent certain of the people implicated by this previous witness. If I've understood the translation correctly, he has subsequently increased the number of persons as alleged perpetrators, to seven. That is why I have said I represent certain of them. My position, our position in regard to this witness' evidence is the same as in regard to the previous group of witnesses. CHAIRMAN Thank you very much Mr Redpath. MR REDPATH As the Commission pleases.